[oats-sig] Ang: Re: wmf to svg conversion

Thanks Jonathan!

Mats,

Did you take the time to look at the weather icons I pointed you to?
http://www.openicon.org/icon-ark/weather-icons.svgz
18 icons in 2Kb.

Can I ask you once again to consider and understand the reasons for  
publishing bliss symbols together in batches as <symbols> in svg files  
rather than individually.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd

j.chetwynd at btinternet.com
http://www.openicon.org/

+44 (0) 20 7978 1764

On 6 Jul 2008, at 00:32, Mats Lundälv wrote:

> Thanks Jonathan!
>
> I have just downloaded the trial version of the Meta Fly conversion  
> tool.
>
> It does the conversions very well indeed. The "difficult" examples  
> (with the different kinds of circle line objects come out  
> beautifully in almost all cases I've tried so far. So the  
> performance of the this tool is really a good target for any open  
> source competitors.
>
> This could actually do the conversion in a manner that would require  
> very little manual tweeking - while waiting for the real solution: A  
> tool that creates the symbols directly in SVG. I am working for  
> that. We use an application called WinBliss to produce the symbol  
> files in a number of formats, including WMF. So the natural solution  
> is to add SVG to the list of supported formats there. It's only a  
> matter of time and resources for the software developers.
>
> I'll probably try to convince one of my employers here to invest in  
> Meta Fly to quickly produce a good SVG library for general access -  
> as soon as that's ok with BCI (Blissymbolics Communications  
> International) - soon I hope.
>
> Cheers,
> Mats
>
> -----<oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk> skrev: -----
>
>
> Mats,
>
> http://www.meta-fly.com/
> seems to answer your needs all be it at a cost $395
>
> send a more detailed report off-list
>
> cheers
>
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
>
>
> j.chetwynd at btinternet.com
> http://www.openicon.org/
>
>
> +44 (0) 20 7978 1764
>
>
>
> On 5 Jul 2008, at 00:24, Mats Lundälv wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>> Thanks for your efforts!
>>
>> I have now tested opening my wmf files with the Paste2Xaml tool -  
>> and unfortunately it does not handle any of the circles, semi- 
>> circle or circle segment components of the wmf:s - just like  
>> SVGFactory they just disappear. Only straight lines are displayed.  
>> I didn't manage to run your app, probably because I don't have the  
>> latest .net components installed - or is it a command line tool?  
>> Anyway it should not work any better than the Paste2Xaml routines  
>> that it uses, I suppose?
>>
>> The application that actually let's me both open the wmf:s  
>> correctly and save them as reasonably usable svg images now is OOo  
>> Draw. The problem there is that the line widths are set to zero,  
>> and that the black line colour is set to undefined. I can open  
>> these converted svg images in Inkscape and manually correct them to  
>> a good result - but it would be a HUGE work for the between  
>> 3000-4000 thousand files I'm working with - close to undoable.
>>
>> ImageMagick can also open and display the wmf:s correctly, but  
>> cannot convert to correct svg.
>>
>> The most promising auto-conversion tool so far is probably the  
>> wmf2svg-0.8.1.jar tool. It actually picks up all components of the  
>> wmf, and the converted svg:s are basically nicely displayed in both  
>> Firefox and Inkscape - except it cannot handle the circular  
>> elements correctly:
>> Circles are correctly positioned but double diameter in size
>> Semi-circles are collapsed to a blob - a very small filled semi- 
>> circle - incorrectly positioned
>> Circle segments are displayed in a weird way - double diameter -  
>> incorrect position, orientation (ignored mirroring/flipping) and  
>> rotation (45 degrees).
>>
>> So what are the alternatives:
>> - Find a way to use the components that OOorg uses and try to get  
>> them improved
>> or/and
>> - Approach the developer of wmf2svg-0.8.1 and try to persuade him  
>> to take a look at my odd line drawing wmf files and try to handle  
>> the circular shapes better
>> - others?
>>
>> I attach a few samples of the Blissymbol wmf files I'm struggling  
>> with, if any of you want to see for yourselves what happens ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mats
>> -----<oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk> skrev: -----
>>
>> Till: "OATs Project Special Interest Group" <oats-sig at lists.becta.org.uk 
>> >
>> Från: Robert Rasiewicz <robert.wk at gmail.com>
>> Sänt av: <oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk>
>> Datum: 2008-07-03 00:36
>> Ärende: Re: [oats-sig] Ang: Re: Ang: Re: Ang: Re: Ang: Re: wmf to  
>> svg     conversion
>>
>> OK, I've glued a little application together employing the  
>> components outlined below (going through xaml as an intermediate  
>> step)
>>
>> http://www.3point14.com/pub/WMF_to_SVG_binaries.zip
>> http://www.3point14.com/pub/WMF_to_SVG_sources.zip
>>
>> binaries require the Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 installed
>> sources can be built using Visual C# 2008 Express
>>
>> r.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Robert Rasiewicz  
>> <robert.wk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> could you try if paste2xaml is rendering your files correctly
>> http://www.wpf-graphics.com/Paste2Xaml.aspx
>>
>> the tool is not perfect yet but the author, Andrej Benedik has  
>> fixed a few issues for me last year for .emf(s) - so he may be  
>> willing to rectify the Ab2d.ReaderWmf library further
>>
>> now, the latest Inkscape is capable of importing vector graphics  
>> from xaml
>>     http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ReleaseNotes046#XAML_import.2Fexport
>> I've tried it and it gave promising results
>>
>> if that route works, then
>> - writing a utility to convert wmf->xaml using Ab2d.ReaderWmf is  
>> not a problem
>>
>> - Inkscape's xaml import is a set of xsl transformations  
>> (inkscape-0.46\share\extensions
>> \xaml2svg\) - some investigation will be required as to which order  
>> to apply them in / how to assemble the output but all in all it  
>> looks feasible
>>
>> r.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Mats Lundälv <mats.lundalv at vgregion.se 
>> > wrote:
>> Yes Steeve, you may say that ;-/
>>
>> Now I have tried Robert's suggestion - the wmf2svg tool, and guess  
>> what?
>>
>> I get proper conversions to valid svg files with all graphical  
>> elements included, including the circular elements, it seems - BUT  
>> these circular elements are not proportionally sized - see the  
>> example image dumps below. So here I am, still stuck.
>>
>> The problem is of course that we are messing with a complex and  
>> poorly documented proprietary Microsoft format - that Microsoft  
>> themselves cannot handle consistently between different Office  
>> versions. Since Office 2003 circle segments are not displayed as  
>> they were before. (Microsoft support suggested us to use png:s  
>> instead of wmf - stndard bitmap format instead of a Microsoft non- 
>> standard vector format, ha!) Different programs obviously output  
>> and display wmf:s slightly differently and few have any real clue  
>> to the details of the format, I suppose.
>>
>> So no wonder really that our conversion tools have problems in  
>> converting consistently.
>>
>> I'll ponder on this now for a while.
>> Thanks again for your help!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mats
>>
>>  always-wmf_via_in_Win_ImageViewer.jpg (proper display)
>>  always2-svg_via_SVG_Factory_in_Inkscape.jpg (circular elements  
>> excluded)
>>  always2-svg_via_wmf2svg_in_Inkscape.jpg (circle out od proportion)
>>  always2-svg_via_wmf2svg_in_FireFox.jpg (same in Firefox, plus not  
>> whole picture shown)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----<oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk> skrev: -----
>>
>> surely there must be are better tools? Oh well.
>>
>> Looks like image magick has not improved since 2002 and Robert's
>> solution was tha good one even back then
>> http://studio.imagemagick.org/pipermail/magick-users/2002-August/004112.html
>>
>> Garry et al edit the files in Adobe Illustrator and export to wmf and
>> SVG. The wmf files need quite a bit of hand correction, probably due
>> to the very privative facilities of that format. The SVGs need very
>> little attention.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> 2008/7/1 Mats Lundälv <mats.lundalv at vgregion.se>:
>> > Hi guys, and more thanks for your input!
>> >
>> > Jonathan; I have native wmf files, and definitely want to go  
>> directly
>> > between the the two vector formats. Dis you ever make it to the  
>> batik java
>> > convertion tools?
>> >
>> > So, as many of you say, the fake handling of wmf (and svg?) that  
>> the bitmap
>> > graphics programs use to access the vector formats are pretty  
>> useless.
>> >
>> > I just tried the latest version of ImageMagick with the same poor  
>> result as
>> > you Andy. It opens and displays my files nicely, and pretends to  
>> convert to
>> > svg, but the svg files are not valid svg-xml.
>> >
>> > I actually managed to run a batch conversion with the old  
>> svgFactory tool,
>> > but only straight lines were handled correctly - all circular/ 
>> rounded shapes
>> > had just disappeared - so again no luck :-(
>> >
>> > InkScape open all my black on transparent white Blissymbol images  
>> with an
>> > empty canvas :-(
>> >
>> > So now my hope is on Robert's solutions, which I will now  
>> concentrate on ...
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Mats
>> >
>> > -----<oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk> skrev: -----
>> >
>> > Till: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig at lists.becta.org.uk 
>> >
>> > Från: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd at btinternet.com>
>> > Sänt av: <oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk>
>> > Datum: 2008-07-01 08:13
>> > Ärende: Re: [oats-sig] Ang: Re: Ang: Re: wmf to svg conversion
>> >
>> > Mats and all,
>> > please confirm whether the tool output is native SVG or merely  
>> embeds or
>> > packages the image in an SVG wrapper.
>> > pcx to svg would also be handy, in addition to wmf to svg
>> > Illustrator for instance opens pcx files and saves to svg format,  
>> but in my
>> > limited experience this is 'useless'.
>> > ie it's similar to embedding a gif photo in html, rather than  
>> changing the
>> > format.
>> > regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jonathan Chetwynd
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > j.chetwynd at btinternet.com
>> > http://www.openicon.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > +44 (0) 20 7978 1764
>> >
>> >
>> > On 30 Jun 2008, at 21:27, Mats Lundälv wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks all for your help!
>> >
>> > My point is really to find a usable direct path directly from the  
>> wmf/emf
>> > vector format to the svg vector format.
>> >
>> > Steeve: As far as I had understood the ImageMagick package only  
>> really fully
>> > supports raster graphics formats and not vector graphics. This  
>> libwmf seems
>> > to provide a possible add-on to IM, but looks a bit uncertain, as  
>> in alpha
>> > stage, and these projects don't seem very end-user oriented. I'll  
>> have a
>> > look.
>> > Do you know what tools Garry and friends use?
>> >
>> > Robert, I have just downloaded the wmf2svg jar file you pointed  
>> me to,
>> > thanks. There are no explicit instructions for batch conversions  
>> there -
>> > have you found a format for that?
>> > This one looks as it could have been an implementation of the  
>> batik java
>> > classes - same Apache license, but no clear pointers to batik, as  
>> far as I
>> > can see.
>> > I'll go ahead testing this and the other alternatives I have.
>> >
>> > I'll try to remember to give you some feedback on how I succeed.
>> >
>> > Andy, thanks for your offer! I'll send you a couple of files if  
>> you care for
>> > checking this up.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Mats
>> >
>> > -----<oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk> skrev: -----
>> >
>> > Till: "OATs Project Special Interest Group" <oats-sig at lists.becta.org.uk 
>> >
>> > Från: Andy Judson <andy.judson at gmail.com>
>> > Sänt av: <oats-sig-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk>
>> > Datum: 2008-06-30 15:27
>> > Ärende: Re: [oats-sig] Ang: Re: wmf to svg conversion
>> >
>> > Hi Robert, i can't remember which version... will try to check  
>> later.
>> >
>> > Mats / Steve (sorry can't remember who started this thread) - if  
>> you could
>> > send me a couple of the wmf files i'll see what is involved in  
>> patching my
>> > code... it should be easier than the png technique - i think when  
>> i did this
>> > i had to use the potrace as a proxy to trace the symbol the  
>> result was then
>> > made into an svg - worked quite well for bliss symbols although  
>> the were a
>> > little round at the tips.
>> >
>> > 2008/6/30 Robert Rasiewicz <robert.wk at gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >> this did work for me nicely for wmf (I did not test the  
>> transparency,
>> >> though)
>> >>    http://code.google.com/p/wmf2svg/
>> >>
>> >> on the same test file I did try ImageMagick 6.3.7 11/21/07  
>> convert.exe and
>> >> it failed horribly
>> >>
>> >> which version of ImageMagick were you working against, Andy ?
>> >>
>> >> r.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Steve Lee <steve at fullmeasure.co.uk 
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey they look really interesting, I know someone who wants edge  
>> tracing.
>> >>>
>> >>> it's worth noting that wmf/emf are vector formats so conversion  
>> should
>> >>> be easier.
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>>
>> >>> 2008/6/30 Andy Judson <andy.judson at gmail.com>:
>> >>> > I wrote a .net app to do this from png to svg for the bliss  
>> symbols
>> >>> > using
>> >>> > the imagemagick library... but the code is at home and i  
>> can't remember
>> >>> > much
>> >>> > about it... i can have a look if i can tweak it for you.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > other libraries to look at
>> >>> >
>> >>> > [1] http://delineate.sourceforge.net/
>> >>> > [2] http://potrace.sourceforge.net/
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 2008/6/30 Steve Lee <steve at fullmeasure.co.uk>:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> oh Inkscape will import WMF so that's a good non-batch  
>> alternative and
>> >>> >> I think OO0 will if you 'break' the image after import.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Steve
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 2008/6/30 Steve Lee <steve at fullmeasure.co.uk>:
>> >>> >> >> I have been looking around again for tools to convert wmf/ 
>> emf
>> >>> >> >> graphic
>> >>> >> >> files
>> >>> >> >> to svg.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Well the PHP web server tool of choice seems to be  
>> ImageMagick and
>> >>> >> > while I have not tried it yet it looks like there are  
>> command line
>> >>> >> > versions.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > http://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > I came across SVG factory before and there's libwmf but  
>> there
>> >>> >> > doesn't
>> >>> >> > seem to have been any activity since 2002
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > http://wvware.sourceforge.net/libwmf.html
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > I've not tried any of them yet as Garry exports directly  
>> to wmf or
>> >>> >> > SVG
>> >>> >> > as required.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> > Steve Lee
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> > Open Source Assistive Technology Software
>> >>> >> > web: fullmeasure.co.uk
>> >>> >> > blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> Steve Lee
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> Open Source Assistive Technology Software
>> >>> >> web: fullmeasure.co.uk
>> >>> >> blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Steve Lee
>> >>> --
>> >>> Open Source Assistive Technology Software
>> >>> web: fullmeasure.co.uk
>> >>> blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Lee
>> --
>> Open Source Assistive Technology Software
>> web: fullmeasure.co.uk
>> blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <wmfs.zip>
>
>

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