[oats-sig] dojinshi & Mulberry Symbol Set

Jonanthan, yes I do understand your concerns and you make some valid

Steve,

 >> don't think this indicates a U turn,...

I wasn't suggesting it was. The outstanding issue behind dojinshi is  
that notwithstanding US copyright law being the standard in Japan,  
there manga originators welcome copyists, who use their characters and  
copy their style, It raises the value of the originals. No reference  
is expected or given, viral networking ensures that everyone in the  
know, knows. the nearest equivalence we have in CC is PD.

at least that is my understanding.

~:"

Jonathan Chetwynd

j.chetwynd at btinternet.com
http://www.iconomy.org/

+44 (0) 20 7978 1764

On 2 May 2008, at 07:26, Steve Lee wrote:

> Jonanthan, yes I do understand your concerns and you make some valid
> points. Its a tricky area and we want it to be as simple as possible
> for user to just use and share the symbols, yet stop 'bad guys'
> claiming ownership.
>
> This is a complex area and I soon get out of my depth but rather than
> get too bogged down in all the licence issues, we need to look to CC
> for answers as similar concerns apply to any digital image (say) and
> they must have been worked out. At this point we want to concentrate
> efforts on getting the symbols out for review and use.
>
> Garry will no doubt have more to say, especially on the requirement to
> agree to the licences on the web site. It may be that is to bring it
> to attention of those taking the symbols.
>
> More comments below inline...
>
> 2008/5/1 Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd at btinternet.com>:
>> did you read the dojinshi article?
>> if you did you'd know why you'd want people to do "anything they  
>> like", yup
>> even to make money.
>
> Yes I did and AFAIKS is arguing against madness like DRM and
> proprietary paranoia which is something we are against for our
> symbols. As you say Lessing is of CC and  I don't think this indicates
> a U turn, quite the opposite.
>
> We want 'users' to freely share and copy the symbols without any
> concern or having to sign a load of legal waffle (EULA) that they
> don't have a clue what they have agreed to. We're happy for anyone to
> use them to make money. However we don't want someone to take them and
> make them proprietary (owned and secret), or derive from them and say
> they are their symbols. As copyright holder Garry can release them
> under other licenses too to specific parties, so perhaps making cash.
> Making them PD will throw away any control we have against the 'bad  
> guys'.
>
>> where are people supposed to put this licence?
>
> That's a good point and we need to find a clear answer to that,
> following CC's lead.
> It's probably not an issue for the initial target audience, SALTs, who
> will mostly use them in their own use and photocopy for clients use.
> They agree the licence once on the web site and then can grab the
> symbols with that licence for their own use.
> It's more complex when we start thinking about mas reproduction or
> electronically communicating the symbols, for example in symbols chat
> or emails. As you suggest users should be able to just use the symbols
> without worrying at all about including the licence, but they should
> be able to find it without difficulty.
>
>> you have a pretty complex system already, one that's hard for non  
>> developers
>> to emulate.
>
> You mean the web site? That's just a means to work with and acquire
> the symbols and not part of Licence concerns for the symbols as such.
>
>> it's a system which so far doesn't have resources which use the  
>> symbols.
>> when it does how will people viewing those resources know?
>> will they have to chose and agree a licence before they get to see  
>> each
>> resource?
>
> I expect the single licence acceptance would cover derived works as
> well if they have the same licence.
>
> -- 
> Steve Lee
> --
> Open Source Assistive Technology Software
> web: fullmeasure.co.uk
> blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog

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