[senco-forum] Developing listening skills in secondary pupils

Eddie,

Aly - I declared a 'commercial interest' because that is the list moderators 
preferred form of declaration. But even if I did make a living from software 
development - I see nothing negative in that. I take great pride in the fact 
that one of my programmes in still helping children to learn to read in 
schools which purchased in many years ago.

No publisher can make a judgement as to what is or what is not an 
appropriate strategy for a particular child - that is rightly, up to the 
professinal judgement of the individual teacher who knows the particular 
child. To suggest that a teacher would use a dictation programme with a 
child who s/he knows will have no understanding of the intellectual content 
is to insult both the intelligence and the integrity of the teacher.

You write 'You need to find out WHY the child cannot appear to be listening, 
is it a
problem with listening or comprehension?'  I have no such need - that is 
neither my remit nor my concern - that again is the professional 
responsibility of the child's teacher of psychologist. You may have 
expertise in that area - I have and claim no expertise.

My function in life is simpler than that of the class teacher - I do not 
have to cope with 30+ children on a daily basis. My role is simply to try to 
develop a variety of tools which teachers can use to resolve specific 
aspects of learning difficulties. If the tools don't work - teachers will 
quite simply not use them.

The advertising that I do undertake is very limited for reasons of cost - 
information about the small number of products that I have produced, tend to 
be spread by word of mouth. Over the years, I have had many teachers move 
schools, sometimes as many as three times and contact me each time to obtain 
further copies - I always find that gratifying.

And so to bed.

Eddie C.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Olanys at aol.com>
To: <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [senco-forum] Developing listening skills in secondary pupils

> Eddie,
>
> You may not gain financially from the materials but you yourself declared 
> a
> commercial interest in them. Your finances are none of my concern.
>
>
> "About the value of dictation you write -' but it does not prove  the 
> child
> has understood a word of it.  ' You are of course well  aware that I have
> made no claim that dictation enhances comprehension and  your inferring 
> that
> I do make such a claim is crudely  dishonest."
> I did not say you infer this, just that my view is that anything  that
> encourages listening without ensuring comprehension is  pointless so I 
> asked if
> your program covers this... and you have just  confirmed that your program 
> does
> nothing to enhance comprehension, which was the  point I was trying to 
> make.
> You do however claim that dictation enhances  listening?
>
> I agree with Clare that:
>
> "Listening has to be meaningful and dictation can be fairly  meaningless. 
> It
> is simply writing down a representation of what we hear without 
> necessarily
> understanding it. Listening involves extracting some sort of meaning  from
> what is 'heard'. "
>
> The ability to listen without comprehension is worthless. The ability to
> take down dictation without comprehension is pointless.
>
>
> To cure listening problems by the excessive addition of writing is 
> confusing
> the issue. If a child cannot take dication there can be  many reasons for 
> it
> beyond mere ability to listen. A child can listen  without being able to 
> take
> dictation or take dictation perfectly well without  any comrehension.
>
> You need to find out WHY the child cannot appear to be listening, is it a
> problem with listening or comprehension? It's like treating a child  with 
> poor
> phonological comprehension with more and more phonics, which you also
> endorse...if it doesn't work the first time it's like flogging a dead 
> horse. Can  you
> see a pattern emerging here? Blame the child and make them work harder, 
> if
> they cannot conform to the way they are taught, give them more of the same 
> to
> do. Would you make a child with poor vision write more? It's this very 
> attitude
> that causes many children to remain barely literate and extremely
> frustrated.
>
> In order to understand and aid listening, you have to fully understand the
> impact of auditory processing on listening and comprehension ability, 
> which
> you clearly do not, as you have stated yourself on this very forum.
>
> " Later on this evening, I will prepare an outline description of the
> strategy unless the list moderator advises me that this would an 
> inappropriate  use
> of the forum."
>
> I suspect  promotion of one's products is very much against the rules, as 
> is
> referring  to someone's post or "contribution" as"a pile of junk". I also
> suspect  nothing will be done about it.
>
> Best  wishes,
> Aly
>
> Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in  the UK/APDUK
> www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm
> www.apduk.org 