[senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics

I have also found onset and rime essential where there is a memory issue
that blocked the blending of three phonemes to decode CVC words.

The other area where onset and rime is an essential tool is in the teaching
of rhyme awareness, where rhyme awareness is a weak phonological awareness
skill.  Children who cannot discriminate rhyme may be taught to segment
words into onset and rime and compare if the rimes sound the same or
different.  Once this is established some games with rhyming poems, using
pictures the child has drawn of the words in the rhyming pairs make it fun
and memorable.  Then move onto word family work to create an awareness of
reading and spelling by analogy - in other words that cat, sat, fat, hat fit
a a pattern and do not need to be decoded sound by sound once that pattern
is recognised.  Similarly with the spelling.

One of my pupils had blocked in decoding and spelling solely on the above
point.  Some specific teaching removed the block and she sailed on.

Philippa

On 11/8/06, Sharon Fawcitt <sfawcitt at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>
> Claire,
> I agree about the memory bit.  Although research has indicated that onset
> and rime is not as effective as synthetic phonics for majority (Brooks et
> al
> 2001, I believe) it can be a real help sometimes for pupils with severe
> STM
> (short term memory) difficulties.   A child who cannot hold on to 3 pieces
> of information in their STM but can manage 2 cannot blend c-a-t but can do
> c-at.  One of my most severe students only progressed through onset and
> rime
> initially. It made reading possible.  He was able, eventually, to blend up
> to 5 sounds, but onset and rime was invaluable initially and for quite a
> long time. "Clink" would have been 5 sounds as in c-l-i-n-k which he just
> could not manage, whereas he was able blend 2 "bits" of information such
> as
> "cl" + "ink" and read it.
> Sharon F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of clare north
> Sent: 07 November 2006 21:53
> To: 'Mary Kelly'
> Cc: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
>
> My experience has shown that children 'at risk' (glue ear, speech /
> language impairments, family history of Dyslexia) can be significantly
> helped by working systematically on developing phonological awareness
> skills. Research has shown that children's sensitivity to rhyme and
> alliteration is a predictor of progress in reading and that specific
> work on rhyme and alliteration can enhance progress. For best results,
> (research by Bryant and Bradley showed), phonological awareness
> training, which also included reference to letters, was best. I don't
> know if this is answering your question but I would always work on
> phonological skills first with young children - sorting pictures etc.
> according to first sound, rhyme, number of syllables or whatever ( phon.
> awareness) but I would also have plastic letters (or similar) to
> establish the link between the spoken/heard sounds and their written
> form. Personally I wouldn't assume that phonic skills will improve
> phonological awareness but phon. awareness training accompanied by the
> appropriate letters will help these children to acquire phonic skills. I
> would also work on memory as I have found that the number of sequential
> items which a child can recall appears to be linked to the ability to
> blend.
> Although most of my work has been with younger pupils, I have used these
> techniques with Years 7 and 8 pupils who have literacy difficulties.
> Sorry - this seems a bit long!
> Clare
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments have been scanned by AVG AntiVirus 7.0.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Kelly [mailto:mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 07 November 2006 20:37
> To: 'clare north'; 'WrayJanice Wray'; 'Jean Hutchins';
> senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
>
> That fits with my thinking exactly. So, do you think most children
> should be
> taught phonics early, to capture their best phonological skills? If so,
> when
> would that be?
> Mary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: clare north [mailto:clare at clarenorth.co.uk]
> Sent: 07 November 2006 08:27
> To: 'Mary Kelly'; 'WrayJanice Wray'; 'Jean Hutchins';
> senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
>
>
> Hi Mary
> In my experience there are certain factors which can cause difficulties
> with phonics. Children who have / have had glue ear are at risk and I
> agree that there seems to be a critical period when processes are being
> developed and, if this critical period is lost, the 'catch-up' can be
> surprisingly slow. Children with language delays and disorders, in my
> experience, also experience significant difficulties which is why I feel
> that Listening Skills and phonological awareness training is important.
> I have also heard (Treiman) that the ability to hear syllables,
> sub-syllables and individual sounds is hierarchical and that  boys in
> particular may not develop the necessary processing skills to hear
> individual sounds until they are coming up to 6. I can't remember the
> reference for this last bit.
>
> Clare
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments have been scanned by AVG AntiVirus 7.0.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Mary Kelly
> Sent: 06 November 2006 21:09
> To: 'WrayJanice Wray'; 'Jean Hutchins'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
>
> I'm wondering if there is an optimal time developmentally as well, when
> a
> child's phonological awareness is naturally at its best ... Not that I
> don't
> support teaching what needs to be learned at any age, but I felt that
> timing
> was a little skirted around at the RRF conference, as if there are
> differences of opinion. Certainly Diane Mc Guinness was critical of the
> idea
> that phonological awareness follows a particular developmental sequence,
> which I had previously thought had been quite clearly established by
> Valerie
> Muter among others. I'm also struck by the number of dyslexic children
> with
> a history of glue ear and I'm wondering if the presence of intermittent
> hearing loss at a particular stage in language development has a greater
> effect upon subsequent acquisition of phonic knowledge than it might at
> other times - a sort of critical period. Pure speculation on my part - I
> have no evidence at all, I hasten to add!
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WrayJanice Wray [mailto:jwwray14 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: 06 November 2006 20:51
> To: Mary Kelly; 'Jean Hutchins'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
>
>
>
> Before they've learned the letter names and forget the sounds - I've got
> a
> dyslexic lad in Year 8 who is struggling so badly and I just can't get
> him
> to srop the names of the letters and look at the sounds - he has private
> tuition from a specialist and me - it's making his life very hard -
> reading
> age still 7yrs - Eng level 2 - and no statement - they've just said No.
> I have taught older children and adults who will learn to make the
> switch so
> I guess where's there's a will................
>
>
> Janice Wray
> Secondary SENCO, Herts
>
>
>
>    _____
>
>
> > From: mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com
> > To: jeanhutchins2000 at yahoo.co.uk; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> > Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
> > Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:10:24 +0000
> > CC:
> >
> > Question for everybody:
> > Do you think there is an optimal time to learn phonics? If so, what
> age is
> > that?
> > Mary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> > [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jean
> Hutchins
> > Sent: 06 November 2006 19:06
> > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> > Subject: [senco-forum] Re: Very few do not reponse to fonics
> >
> > On 12:00 Anne Syme wrote:
> > > I have had only 2 whose difficulties were such
> > > that they never really got to grips with phionics
> >
> > I only ever had one pupil,
> > who could not grasp fonics at all.
> > As an RSA course tutor,
> > I observed only one learner, an adult,
> > who did not respond to fonics at all.
> >
> > Jean
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Jean Hutchins, SE Surrey DA.
> > RSA Dip SpLD, AMBDA, retired.
> > E-mail: JeanHutchins2000 at yahoo.co.uk
> > British Dyslexia Association Web: www.bdadyslexia.org
> > (Also into spelling reform www.spellingsociety.org)
> >
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