[senco-forum] b d p confusion

Out of interest, Biffe, try saying whole words rather than the single

Sharon - I even tried in front of the mirror, much to the amusement of the
children ('why is Dad watching himself say 'big pig, duck tuck'
repeatedly?') - I still use different part of the lips / have different
positioning of tongue against roof of mouth.

Biff bigpigducktuck Crabbe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Fawcitt" <sfawcitt at dsl.pipex.com>
To: "'Biff Crabbe'" <ba at biffc.vispa.com>; "'Mary Kelly'"
<mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com>; "'Maggie Downie'" <maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk>;
<senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: RE: [senco-forum] b d p confusion

> Out of interest, Biffe, try saying whole words rather than the single
sound
> e.g. big/pig or  duck/tuck.  Does that feel more similar to you?  It's
very,
> very similar for me - I would venture it's identical for b/p for me.  I
> wonder if dialect plays a part?
> Sharon F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Biff Crabbe
> Sent: 12 October 2006 21:24
> To: Mary Kelly; 'Maggie Downie'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [senco-forum] b d p confusion
>
> I don't form 'b' and 'p' orally in the same way - the 'b' is formed
towards
> the back of my lips; the 'p' is formed further forward and has a slightly
> different shaping of the lips.
>
> For 'd', my tongue contacts the roof of the mouth further back than for
't'.
> For 't', the tongue seems to be involved in producing the plosive effect.
>
> So they're equivalents up to a point!  (At least in my mouth)
>
> Meandering thread - strayed far from the original - but definitely
> interesting as a parent of a child with speech difficulties.
>
> Biff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Kelly" <mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com>
> To: "'Maggie Downie'" <maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk>;
> <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 6:03 PM
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] b d p confusion
>
>
> > /B/ and /p/ are voiced and unvoiced equivalents;
> > /d/ and /t/ are voiced and unvoiced equivalents.
> > Mary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> > [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Maggie
> > Downie
> > Sent: 12 October 2006 16:52
> > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] b d p confusion
> >
> > Well, I've been sitting here saying /b/, /d/ repeatedly and the mouth
> > movements are quite different.  Am I some sort of freak?  To say /d/
> > the tongue touches the roof of the mouth and the lips are  parted from
> > the start, whereas the tongue doesn't move at all in /b/ and the lips
> > start off closed and open as air is forced through them.
> >
> >
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Sharon Fawcitt <sfawcitt at dsl.pipex.com>
> > To: Olanys at aol.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> > Sent: Thursday, 12 October, 2006 12:21:19 AM
> > Subject: RE: [senco-forum] b d p confusion
> >
> > I agree.  It is important to find out what is causing the problem first
> > -
> > see Aly's and Mary Kelly's posts -and help accordingly,  or you will not
> > be
> > helping the child at all.
> > b/p is commonly an auditory processing problem initially.  The mouth
> > movements are identical - feel for yourself when you announce each - one
> > is
> > voiced, one is not, but otherwise, identical mouth movement.
> > Sharon F.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> > [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> > Olanys at aol.com
> > Sent: 11 October 2006 22:54
> > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] b d confusion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sure, I  agree. I'm thinking that first you must be able to perceive
> > that
> > there is a  difference between the phonemes though - if they sound the
> > same to you, you  won't know which kinaesthetic feel to associate with
> > which phoneme, and  therefore confusion will continue, no matter how
> > clearly you can  distinguish between the graphemes. Don't you think
> > so?"
> >
> >
> >
> > I totally agree Mary. It is either, as I said in my original post on
> > this
> > topic, an auditory processing issue (differentiating the phonemes) or a
> > visual
> > processing issue (distinguishing between the graphemes) and you need to
> > know
> > which one. It may even be both...
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Aly
> >
> > Chair Auditory  Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK
> > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm
> > www.apduk.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Send instant messages to your online friends
> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
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