[senco-forum] ASD and exclusion

From: "Mary Kelly" <mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com>

Yes Mary I agree that there are some pupils for whom integration is not
currently possible, or certainly not in their interest.

Two pupils come to mind in my recent experience - both statemented ASD &
ADHD.

The first now happily attends special school.  Despite making considerable
support and numerous adjustments way beyond what the statement provided for
we could not solve all the issues a large complex comprehensive school
presented him.  Within months it was clear that attending mainstream was
causing him untold damage in terms of his self-esteem and increasingly high
levels of anxiety.  You cannot get every child in his classes/form/year
group and school to understand that when he shouts foul abuse at you from
across the atrium and up three floors because you glanced in his direction
taht is was 'nothing personal' and should be ignored.  It was heart breaking
watchimng his self-confidence collapse to the point where he was being
taught one-to-one on a part time timetable, and even then would walk out of
school because he couldn't cope.

For the second child Warhammer has been his saviour.  In the light of a
number of ASD pupils, the one above included, I started a Warhsammer Club.
This runs every lunchtime, the boys will normally see me before school, come
to my room at break time and after school in the hope I might let them play
or at least talk to them about Warhammer.  What difference does it make?

1 - it's not about school so is a release from all that.
2 - the club, 22 boys at the moment, ranges from year 7-10 and is an
eclectic mix of personalities and needs.
3 - it is what they come to school for - yes really and very seriously.
4 -  it give me the daily opportunity to face them with their difficulties.
Sometimes they walk off, in tears at times, tantrums at others because the
game  confronts them with the need to be sociable and negotiate the rules,
to play fairly and with gamesmanship, flouncing off because you sare loosing
or can't get your way dosen't work.  Above all else they always come back
because the game is all important.
5 - the rise in self-confidence is truly amazing.  To be told - 'you're the
rules master' really boosts their self-esteem.

I'm not suggesting that Warhammer is the answer for all ASD pupils but it
has certainly helped mine.

The issue for me is their very fragile self-confidence and insecurity.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk]On Behalf Of Mary Kelly
Sent: 14 April 2007 14:18
To: 'Gaynor Dunkley'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
Subject: RE: [senco-forum] ASD and exclusion

What I am about to say is really no help at all, but I wonder if this boy is
one of those that Baroness Warnock was thinking of when she recently
reinterpreted the inclusion ideal and said that inclusion in mainstream had
not been successful for all, in particular those with ASD in mainstream
secondary schools? It's very sad.
Mary

-----Original Message-----
From: Gaynor Dunkley [mailto:gadunkley at hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: 14 April 2007 13:04
To: mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
Subject: RE: [senco-forum] ASD and exclusion

Mary

Thank you for this I am a firm believer in stating the obvious as it is
usually the obvious that gets over looked and can offer the key to the
problem.

I do agree that this is a very unhappy young man and it causes me personal
distress to see him when he is at his lowest. I know we should not get
emotionally involved but this one is a challenge and it does cause me
sleepless nights.

His behaviour is more to do with the ADHD element of his statement. It
started off with sudden verbal outbursts and beating himself about the
head,developed into shouting everyone down when he did not agree or they
wished to do something else ,this includes teachers ,increasingly he has
become physically aggressive throwing chairs,laptops and books across the
room. He is also beginning to physically harm other students and it is this
that I have had to discipline him for in line with school policy. The ASD
element makes it difficult to get him to understand why his behaviour is not

acceptable and he just shouts at everyone. He can go from being a hard
working and pleasant boy to a raging shouting demon in the blink of an eye.
In his eyes he can do no wrong and his perception is that he is being picked

on by staff and students who are in actual fact displaying extreme tolerance

and skill in including him in the class.

We have tried Circle of Friends he hated it and would not co operate,1:1
sessions to try and identify the causes of his anxieties and what makes him
snap. The LA ASD specialist team have been in to work with him,and offer
suggestions on how to settle him all to no avail.

I shall keep persevering but I am becoming increasingly dispirited by the
lack of support for students such as this.

Gaynor

>From: "Mary Kelly" <mary.kelly4 at ntlworld.com>
>To: "'Gaynor Dunkley'"
><gadunkley at hotmail.co.uk>,<amandavh at btinternet.com>,<senco-forum at lists.bect
a.org.uk>
>Subject: RE: [senco-forum] ASD and exclusion
>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:07:00 +0100
>
>Dear Gaynor,
>Reading this I'm wondering if there is anything you can do in terms of
>seeing this as simply a very unhappy boy who has been moved (perhaps
>against
>his will) and just needs friends? Can you set up a Circle of Friends, for
>example? Could his behaviour (and, by the way, what exactly is the
>behaviour?) stem from acute anxiety? Could you figure out what causes the
>anxiety and work to alleviate it? Forgive me if these are obvious but I
>felt
>they may be worth suggesting all the same.
>Best wishes,
>Mary
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
>[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Gaynor Dunkley
>Sent: 14 April 2007 11:34
>To: amandavh at btinternet.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
>Subject: RE: [senco-forum] ASD and exclusion
>
>
>Amanda
>
>I have been following this strand with interest as I am now approaching a
>similar situation.
>
>I have a yr 7  ASD/ADHD student on a statement that provides roughly 12
>hours of support a week but despite out best efforts and those off outside
>agencies his behaviour is becoming so extreme that even with the 25 hours
>of
>
>support we are giving him things are looking bleak and he has only been
>with
>
>us for 6 months. There was no indication of the extremity of his
>difficulties in the request for placement before transition and I did not
>have the opportunity to visit him as he came from another LA over 50 miles
>away. The LA are offering us more money to extend the hours of support but
>we are already doing this out of budget and it has little effect on him
>
>I too am questioning whether mainstream placement for him is appropriate
>but
>
>have no alternative to recommend or refer him to.
>
>The rest of his form are frightened of him as are some staff who are
>struggling to teach the other 29 in the group while dealing with him. He is
>spending increasing number of hours with my self and TAs but refuses to do
>work for us and threatens to run away as he hates being in school and hates
>all his peers. It is clear to see that he is not in an appropriate setting
>either for him or for the learning of other students. Had I know what I
>know
>
>now I would probably have recommended that he not be offered a place at our
>school on the grounds that the learning of others would be adversely
>affected.(A quick look at the data on the group show that they have
>suffered
>
>more than any other group on teacher assessments )
>
>It is only a matter of time before the complaints from other parents start
>coming in and I have to put myself between the rock and the hard place. The
>boys parents are very supportive but do not wish him moved.
>
>Added in is the fact that he is a very likeable boy and I feel like a real
>s**t when I have had to discipline him for his bad behaviour.
>
>Like you Amanda I am concerned at the big questions that appear to have no
>apparent answers.
>
>Gaynor
>
> >From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com>
> >To: senco-forum <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>
> >Subject: [senco-forum] ASD and exclusion
> >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:09:54 +0100 (BST)
> >
> >Hello everyone
> >   After my request for comments on whether to excude someone with ASD or
> >not, I thought I'd summarise the responses.
> >   There were some who feel that exclusion is always unacceptable and
>that
> >we must accommodate the person with ASD whatever their behaviour.  I can
> >see their point.  But I have to say that I do worry about the rest of us.
> >Brandan told me about someone who puts salt on all his food and that of
> >everyone else.  His colleagues say nothing - just eat the food without
> >complaining.  But I'd be in trouble if he put salt on my food as I have a
> >very low salt diet.  And what would happen if he put salt in a baby's
>food?
>
> >  I also have personal experience of a boy with ASD who felt the need to
> >cuddle up to everyone he met.  We had problems when other students felt
> >threatened by him - and, yes we did have parental complaints about him.
> >   There were others who felt that we have to make sure that people with
> >ASD can be acceptable members of society, so we must make sure that they
> >conform to our rules of behaviour even if they don't like it.
> >   I'm a working SENCO and I deal with these difficulties all the time.
>I
> >won't say any more about the exclusion of the pupil who started off this
> >thread except to say that I know that we have spent five years doing
> >everything we can to help him in school (and we have to all accept that
> >schools have rules which must be applied - and schools are places where
> >pupils are educated in groups).
> >   I return to my biggest concern.  Should we be placing the needs of one
> >pupil above that of others?  What do we do if the school is not the right
> >place for that pupil but there is no means of managing a move to a more
> >appropriate placement?
> >   Amanda
> >
> >
> >Amanda
> >Secondary SENCO
> >Cornwall
>
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