Terry Cowell
tivvy49 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 19 20:32:50 BST 2007
- Previous message: [senco-forum] paired reading
- Next message: [SENco-forum] Re: SENco-forum Digest, Vol 43, Issue 18
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
Hi there I'm not sure if this is going to the right place. I have been a regular reader of posts on the forum for months now but have only made one posting. Has anyone any advice about personalised learning? I am at present A Senco at a small independent school (age 2-16) but my job is to be incorporated into Personalised Learning Coordinator as this is to become a whole school policy. Any advice would be welcome and/or any copies of policies or job descriptions. Thank you Tivvy On 4/19/07, senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk <senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk> wrote: > Send senco-forum mailing list submissions to > senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > senco-forum-owner at lists.becta.org.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of senco-forum digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Paired reading (ann kurt) > 2. Re: Yr 6 child (anusianena at aol.com) > 3. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Amanda) > 4. Re: SENCos MUST be on the SMT? (Chris Gravell) > 5. Re: Handwriting slow and neat (Greg) > 6. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Olanys at aol.com) > 7. RE: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child workingbelow > L3) (barbara) > 8. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child workingbelow > L3) (Niels Seaton) > 9. Re: Handwriting slow and neat (Olanys at aol.com) > 10. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child workingbelow > L3) (Olanys at aol.com) > 11. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Amanda) > 12. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (kngbrndn at aol.com) > 13. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Olanys at aol.com) > 14. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Anusianena at aol.com) > 15. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Olanys at aol.com) > 16. Fwd: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) (kngbrndn at aol.com) > 17. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (kngbrndn at aol.com) > 18. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Amanda) > 19. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (kngbrndn at aol.com) > 20. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Amanda) > 21. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child workingbelow > L3) (Gaynor Dunkley) > 22. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Olanys at aol.com) > 23. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Jonathan Sampson) > 24. RE: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Ruth Newbury) > 25. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (kngbrndn at aol.com) > 26. Re: KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below > L3) (Maggie Downie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:12:36 +0000 > From: "ann kurt" <annkurt at hotmail.com> > Subject: [senco-forum] Paired reading > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <BAY107-F29B5CD1AF6FBFACCA51992B6500 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > I live in Istanbul inTurkey - but I am English. I have a 7 yr old son who > has dyslexia.Unlike the UK there is non-existent help for someone like my > son.In fact most people have never even heard the word dyslexia!!! As a > result of this I have had to educate myself about the subject.In fact I have > been trying to establish a dyslexic assoc here - all easier said than done > !!!!! I am at present trying to start up a paired reading project here as > this looked like something which could be feasibly done.I wondered if anyone > had used paired reading with dyslexic children?? Any advice on setting up a > scheme like this ??? > In addition is there anyone out there living in Turkey ?? - probably a long > shot really.... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hem e-postalarinizi, hem de Bilgisayarinizi MSN Güvenlik ile koruma altina > alin! http://www.msn.com.tr/security/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:24:47 -0400 > From: anusianena at aol.com > Subject: [senco-forum] Re: Yr 6 child > To: the.sampsons.111 at virgin.net, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk. > Message-ID: <8C94FD411CB0D7C-F48-F77 at webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks to everyone for your ideas. Do you think there is an issue arond this sort of "pack" work that the child is not actually being taught, and if he is being given activities at a level he can do independently then by definition it will not be stretching him but will need to be within his comfort zone? Does this become death by worksheet? or is it justifiable for the few weeks up to SATs? > > I like the idea of a project, but again he would need some support to do this. I agree that he does need to develop some independent skills. It has been heartening to hear that others have had to face up to this issue as well. > Anusia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: the.sampsons.111 at virgin.net > To: Anusianena at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 1.53PM > Subject: Yr 6 child > > > This is a fairly common problem in our school as we always have a few working below level 3, also usually a few who have just arrived in the country with no English. > What about putting together some 'packs' - one each for literacy/maths and science. > When the class do maths or literacy , so can he using his own stuff. Give him a simple visual timetable or plan so he knows what he needs to do every day and he can get on with by himself. It may be worth each extra adult who is working with him to go through this so that he can be independent when there is no one with him. He may need a daily 'list/ pictures of what to do each day. Give him strategies so he knows what to do if he gets stuck - ie move to another activity. > Personally I would be loath to send him to reception as he will be off to mainstream secondary soon so needs to learn strategies to cope and some independence. > > Literacy - Does he work through a reading scheme which has accompanying worksheets? These are great as there is usually a mixture of phonics/comprehenision/writing. Photocopy some simple 'write about the picture' type sheets with a picture and an appropriate number of lines below with some useful key words relating to the picture. Practice his own spellings on Wordshark every day - use headphones. Talking books with activities. > > Maths - I would photocopy a mixture of worksheets and give him a pack of aids (no. line/ square, cubes, money, etc) Numbershark? or other computer stuff > > Same for science. > > Sam learning? easy peasy as so much repetition and visual and it doesn't matter how many times he gets it wrong. > > Also get him to do his own project. I have just finished a Dr who one with a year 5. He can find pictures, draw and write a bit, do some on the computer, download the odd picture, etc. > Sue KS2 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:29:48 +0100 (BST) > From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <135374.47280.qm at web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hello > I'd like to try to make some general points about KS2 to 3 transition for pupils who are working at Level 2 and below, rather then comment on the case Anusia aised. She did ask for 'no lectures' after all so she obviously knows that there are issues she is trying to address. > Brendan said 'Everyone gets alarmed when SATs and secondary transiton approaches'. I'd agree - this is a real concern for parents and for primary teachers for children with SEN. But I don't think that this is because of what he calls 'fear of accountablity' every time. It is often, in my experience, because my small rural primary feeder schools have a way of being very flexible about the way they educate pupils who are working at Level 2 and below in their school. Pupils are happy there. Parents know the routine and the staff so they are happy too. Secondary schools are larger and further away. Many parents of pupils with low ability have an unhappy experience of secondary school in the past so feel even more concerned. > Example: I have a child whose reading and writing skills are at P7. He spent his primary career learning to speak, having arrived with no expressive language at all at the age of 5. He was very happy at primary school and was managing really well. But the school had to make sure that they did the SATs work in Year 6 so they had to find things for him to do all day every day for four weeks which bore no relation to what the rest of the class was doing. This would be just about manageable if he had full time 1-1 TA support but he does not. He is unable to do anything involving any kind of reading or writing without direct adult intervention. > Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil with no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to learn from them. I'll pass on any advice to my colleagues and also use it in my English lesson. Saying 'the LA must do X, Y and Z' is no use. Don't you think that we are arguing as hard as we can with the LA all the time? > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > CornwallFrom Anusianena at aol.com Wed Apr 18 16:12:32 2007 > Received: from [193.109.254.163] (helo=mail30.messagelabs.com) > by davinci.ngfl.gov.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1HeBpg-0001Uv-Nn > for senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:12:32 +0100 > X-VirusChecked: Checked > X-Env-Sender: Anusianena at aol.com > X-Msg-Ref: server-21.tower-30.messagelabs.com!1176909149!32734640!1 > X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- > X-Originating-IP: [205.188.157.36] > X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.6 required=7.0 tests=BODY_RANDOM_LONG, > HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY > Received: (qmail 1670 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2007 15:12:30 -0000 > Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) > by server-21.tower-30.messagelabs.com with SMTP; > 18 Apr 2007 15:12:30 -0000 > Received: from Anusianena at aol.com > by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id 3.c77.f1c8c37 (52853); > Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:12:26 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from webmail-da16 (webmail-da16.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.211]) > by cia-m04.mx.aol.com (v114_r3.6) with ESMTP id > MAILCIAM045-ce7546263558d0; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:12:24 -0400 > To: amandavh at btinternet.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working > below L3) > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:12:25 -0400 > X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI > In-Reply-To: <135374.47280.qm at web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > X-MB-Message-Type: User > MIME-Version: 1.0 > From: anusianena at aol.com > X-Mailer: AOL Email 25045 > Received: from 10.170.100.40 by webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.211) > with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:12:25 -0400 > Message-Id: <8C94FE31B077F58-F48-19C1 at webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com> > X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.211 > X-Spam-Flag: NO > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.2 > Cc: > X-BeenThere: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > Precedence: list > List-Id: for discussing issues relating to the work of Sencos > <senco-forum.lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=unsubscribe> > List-Archive: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/pipermail/senco-forum> > List-Post: <mailto:senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Help: <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=help> > List-Subscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=subscribe> > > Thank you Amanda. You expressed so well some of the issues we regularly face at primary level. A lot of children do indeed cope - and progress - at school action plus within primary because of our relative flexibility, small size etc. And I have noticed that with devolved funding we do indeed have more resources to deploy as we see fit. We are not afraid to be accountable. But we (I speak for myself and colleagues here) do worry as to how some of our more vulnerable children will cope at secondary. I have also heard that requests for assessments at Y5 or Y6 are sometimes turned down (wrongly!!!) because the powers that be think we are just looking for a statement to help us through SATs. This is a case of glass half full or half empty. They argue that if the child has not needed a statement so far, why should they suddenly do so. i would say that they have not needed a statement so far because we have managed to support their learning up to this point because we are a small school with some flexibility and few "terrors" for the children, but the change of curriculum and pace and all the rest that inevitably comes at the end, together with concerns about transition, mean that I for one think it is most appropriate that some children who have not needed the extra support a statement may bring, do need one at Y6. It does not mean we have ignored the child's difficultes or not sought to support them. > hope that made sense, sentences getting very long. > Would add my plea to Amanda's that if anyone knows "how to enable a pupil with > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time" - please let me know! > > Anusia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amandavh at btinternet.com > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 3.29PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > > Hello > I'd like to try to make some general points about KS2 to 3 transition for > pupils who are working at Level 2 and below, rather then comment on the case > Anusia aised. She did ask for 'no lectures' after all so she obviously knows > that there are issues she is trying to address. > Brendan said 'Everyone gets alarmed when SATs and secondary transiton > approaches'. I'd agree - this is a real concern for parents and for primary > teachers for children with SEN. But I don't think that this is because of what > he calls 'fear of accountablity' every time. It is often, in my experience, > because my small rural primary feeder schools have a way of being very flexible > about the way they educate pupils who are working at Level 2 and below in their > school. Pupils are happy there. Parents know the routine and the staff so they > are happy too. Secondary schools are larger and further away. Many parents of > pupils with low ability have an unhappy experience of secondary school in the > past so feel even more concerned. > Example: I have a child whose reading and writing skills are at P7. He spent > his primary career learning to speak, having arrived with no expressive language > at all at the age of 5. He was very happy at primary school and was managing > really well. But the school had to make sure that they did the SATs work in > Year 6 so they had to find things for him to do all day every day for four weeks > which bore no relation to what the rest of the class was doing. This would be > just about manageable if he had full time 1-1 TA support but he does not. He is > unable to do anything involving any kind of reading or writing without direct > adult intervention. > Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil with > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to learn > from them. I'll pass on any advice to my colleagues and also use it in my > English lesson. Saying 'the LA must do X, Y and Z' is no use. Don't you think > that we are arguing as hard as we can with the LA all the time? > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:46:40 +0100 > From: Chris Gravell <chris.gravell at green43.myzen.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] SENCos MUST be on the SMT? > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20070418154810.032d9040 at mailhost.zen.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Mark wrote: > > > >Can anyone point me in the right direction of the > >legislation/guidance/whatever please? > > The Education and Inspections Act 2006 says: > > 173 Special educational needs co-ordinators > In section 317 of EA 1996 (duties of governing body or LEA in relation to > pupils > with special educational needs) after subsection (3) insert— > "(3A) The governing body of a community, foundation or voluntary school or > a maintained nursery school shall designate a member of the staff at the > school (to be known as the "special educational needs co-ordinator") as > having responsibility for co-ordinating the provision for pupils with > special educational needs. > (3B) Regulations may— > (a) require the governing bodies of schools falling within > subsection (3A) to ensure that special educational needs coordinators > have prescribed qualifications or prescribed > experience (or both), and > (b) confer on the governing bodies of those schools other functions > relating to special educational needs co-ordinators." > > > According to the E&I Act 2006 implementation chart at: > > <http://www.dfes.gov.uk/publications/educationandinspectionsact/> > > Regs should come into force in October, but draft Regs should have been > issued for consultation in Jan, and have not yet been. John Perryman at the > DfES says that they are delayed, and doesn't know exactly when the draft > will be out, but it is hoped that the implementation date can be kept to. > > Best wishes > > Chris > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:51:15 +0100 > From: "Greg" <gregory.lambert at btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [SENco-forum] Handwriting slow and neat > To: <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > Message-ID: <003e01c781d9$c7da5750$2201a8c0 at STARLIGHT> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, > Many thanks to you all for such positive advice - much appreciated. > The lad is in year 8, and at the moment no extra time has been awarded. > > Take care, > > Greg > SENCo Lancs > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <SEN at tringham.net> > To: "Greg" <gregory.lambert at btinternet.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [SENco-forum] Handwriting slow and neat > > > > How old? "Speed up" by Lois Addy is incredibly messy and may be what he > > needs. It is for 8-13 and could be done at home. > > > > The problem is that if you improve his speed he cannot have time > > allowances! > > If he start with ICT now he has to use it in every subject that he needs > > to > > take an exam in using ICT. You have to show it is his normal method of > > working, and that it is faster than doing it by hand. > > > > My son cannot type fast. He gets too distracted. His writing is all but > > illegible. He probably needs a scribe but is unlikely to get one as he > > cannot possibly have one in a mainstream classroom. Catch 22 and the poor > > sausage is just left floundering with his 132 IQ barely keeping his little > > head above water in Year 6. > > > > Sharon Tringham > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk > > [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk]On Behalf Of Greg > > Sent: 17 April 2007 20:22 > > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > > Subject: [senco-forum] Handwriting slow and neat > > > > > > Hi, > > We have a student who writes very very neatly but very very slowly and > > this > > may affect his exams. > > He writes at 10 words per minute (approx). > > Has anyone any strategies that we could try to improve his handwriting > > speed? > > > > Take care, > > > > Greg > > SENCo Lancs > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/764 - Release Date: 17/04/2007 > > 04:43 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/764 - Release Date: 17/04/2007 > > 04:43 > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/765 - Release Date: 17/04/2007 > > 17:20 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:29:44 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <c7d.beec6b2.3357af88 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > > "Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil > with no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to learn > from them." > > > If the child could do this he would not need support at any time...why not > just sit him in front of the tv! > > > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:29:31 +0100 > From: "barbara" <barbht at saqnet.co.uk> > Subject: RE: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: "'Amanda'" <amandavh at btinternet.com>, > <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > Message-ID: <000001c781df$1feb6880$0100a8c0 at BarbhtP43Gb> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Practical suggestions - apart from death by worksheet - would be very > welcome to many of us who struggle with these non readers when they arrive > bright eyed and bushy tailed in year 7. > (equally 2 of mine have managed to get excluded - we get circulated for work > to be sent home -the english departmet come begging for our materials but in > all honesty there is very little/nothing to engage non reader meaningfully > for an hour) barbara ht > > -----Original Message----- > From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk > [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Amanda > Sent: 18 April 2007 15:30 > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > > > Hello > I'd like to try to make some general points about KS2 to 3 transition for > pupils who are working at Level 2 and below, rather then comment on the case > Anusia aised. She did ask for 'no lectures' after all so she obviously > knows that there are issues she is trying to address. > Brendan said 'Everyone gets alarmed when SATs and secondary transiton > approaches'. I'd agree - this is a real concern for parents and for primary > teachers for children with SEN. But I don't think that this is because of > what he calls 'fear of accountablity' every time. It is often, in my > experience, because my small rural primary feeder schools have a way of > being very flexible about the way they educate pupils who are working at > Level 2 and below in their school. Pupils are happy there. Parents know > the routine and the staff so they are happy too. Secondary schools are > larger and further away. Many parents of pupils with low ability have an > unhappy experience of secondary school in the past so feel even more > concerned. > Example: I have a child whose reading and writing skills are at P7. He > spent his primary career learning to speak, having arrived with no > expressive language at all at the age of 5. He was very happy at primary > school and was managing really well. But the school had to make sure that > they did the SATs work in Year 6 so they had to find things for him to do > all day every day for four weeks which bore no relation to what the rest of > the class was doing. This would be just about manageable if he had full > time 1-1 TA support but he does not. He is unable to do anything involving > any kind of reading or writing without direct adult intervention. > Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil > with no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to > learn from them. I'll pass on any advice to my colleagues and also use it > in my English lesson. Saying 'the LA must do X, Y and Z' is no use. Don't > you think that we are arguing as hard as we can with the LA all the time? > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by SAQNET SpamAlizer www.saq.co.uk, and is believed to be > clean. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:31:00 +0100 > From: "Niels Seaton" <niels.seaton at virgin.net> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: <anusianena at aol.com>, <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > Message-ID: <000b01c781df$561d0120$0400a8c0 at main> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > But Anusia..... > > It is not the statement that brings help to the child - at least I hope that > help is not dependent on a statement being in force.... > > Refusal to assess a child is another matter - if assessment is indicated > then it should proceed - this can be a statutory assessment or otherwise and > there are ways of enabling assessments to be encouraged... > > At the end of the assessment there should still be no need for a statement > although if it was a statutory assessment then obviously a note in lieu will > be the only other option > - and for us in this LEA the nil is given the same status in house as a > statement and is subject to the same subsequent review system - but most > chidlren get the support without a statement or a note in lieu > > Even children with statements get the so-called 'terrors' at school and that > can be at a primary or a secondary or special school > > The key point is the LEA and the school and the parents and the child and > anyone else involved all working together to ensure the coping and the > progress that you are concerned to achieve > > Children's needs can change with time and if the needs were not high at > 3,4,5 or 6 this doesn't mean that they will not be high at 10 or 11 and the > child's parents can take issue with your aforementioned refusal to assess > through the appropriate and readily available channels > > LEAs and schools and other services have the potential to have all the > necesaary management systems and flexibility within their systems to do > their bit - the 'powers that be' should be your allies and you should ensure > that you or your representatives at school, lea, union or political level > make this so > > So - extra support through a statement - sorry can't agree with you - brings > us back to 'why a statement?' > > I think government and Audit Commisssion and many others think this way > too... > > Vulnerable children are the concern of everyone at the moment and even > though you may not see this from inside a school I am sure that most LEAs/ > Children's Services would have such children as one of > their lead priorities - and they are open to inspection and audit on this > both from within and without > > So keep fighting your good fight but don't keep asking for statements - do > something better - reach out and change the system so that the help comes > without a statement - there has to be a better way in the long term - if > you've been around as long as me you will know that things are better than > they were - and even though it will take time things are likely to get > better than they currently are - and without statements I'm sure - start > your lobbying - there's an election coming up etc etc etc - sorry for the > rant > > Regards (hoping that you have all of your assessment requests fulfilled) > > Niels > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <anusianena at aol.com> > To: <amandavh at btinternet.com>; <Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > > > > Thank you Amanda. You expressed so well some of the issues we regularly > > face at primary level. A lot of children do indeed cope - and progress - > > at school action plus within primary because of our relative flexibility, > > small size etc. And I have noticed that with devolved funding we do indeed > > have more resources to deploy as we see fit. We are not afraid to be > > accountable. But we (I speak for myself and colleagues here) do worry as > > to how some of our more vulnerable children will cope at secondary. I > > have also heard that requests for assessments at Y5 or Y6 are sometimes > > turned down (wrongly!!!) because the powers that be think we are just > > looking for a statement to help us through SATs. This is a case of glass > > half full or half empty. They argue that if the child has not needed a > > statement so far, why should they suddenly do so. i would say that they > > have not needed a statement so far because we have managed to support > > their learning up to this point because we are a small sc > > > > hool with some flexibility and few "terrors" for the children, but the > > change of curriculum and pace and all the rest that inevitably comes at > > the end, together with concerns about transition, mean that I for one > > think it is most appropriate that some children who have not needed the > > extra support a statement may bring, do need one at Y6. It does not mean > > we have ignored the child's difficultes or not sought to support them. > > hope that made sense, sentences getting very long. > > Would add my plea to Amanda's that if anyone knows "how to enable a pupil > > with > > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time" - please let me > > know! > > > > Anusia > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amandavh at btinternet.com > > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 3.29PM > > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > > working below L3) > > > > > > Hello > > I'd like to try to make some general points about KS2 to 3 transition for > > pupils who are working at Level 2 and below, rather then comment on the > > case > > Anusia aised. She did ask for 'no lectures' after all so she obviously > > knows > > that there are issues she is trying to address. > > Brendan said 'Everyone gets alarmed when SATs and secondary transiton > > approaches'. I'd agree - this is a real concern for parents and for > > primary > > teachers for children with SEN. But I don't think that this is because of > > what > > he calls 'fear of accountablity' every time. It is often, in my > > experience, > > because my small rural primary feeder schools have a way of being very > > flexible > > about the way they educate pupils who are working at Level 2 and below in > > their > > school. Pupils are happy there. Parents know the routine and the staff > > so they > > are happy too. Secondary schools are larger and further away. Many > > parents of > > pupils with low ability have an unhappy experience of secondary school in > > the > > past so feel even more concerned. > > Example: I have a child whose reading and writing skills are at P7. He > > spent > > his primary career learning to speak, having arrived with no expressive > > language > > at all at the age of 5. He was very happy at primary school and was > > managing > > really well. But the school had to make sure that they did the SATs work > > in > > Year 6 so they had to find things for him to do all day every day for four > > weeks > > which bore no relation to what the rest of the class was doing. This > > would be > > just about manageable if he had full time 1-1 TA support but he does not. > > He is > > unable to do anything involving any kind of reading or writing without > > direct > > adult intervention. > > Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil > > with > > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to > > learn > > from them. I'll pass on any advice to my colleagues and also use it in my > > English lesson. Saying 'the LA must do X, Y and Z' is no use. Don't you > > think > > that we are arguing as hard as we can with the LA all the time? > > > > Amanda > > Secondary SENCO > > Cornwall > > > > > > > > > > Amanda > > Secondary SENCO > > Cornwall > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:36:59 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [SENco-forum] Handwriting slow and neat > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <c49.e2ff08f.3357b13b at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I have read that slow but neat handwriting, as well as disorgasnised, > irregular writing can indicate dysgraphia... perhaps this might need investigation. > Small neat writing produced slowly may also indicate visual processing > difficulties. > > http://www.as.wvu.edu/~scidis/dysgraphia.html > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:39:50 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: niels.seaton at virgin.net, Anusianena at aol.com, > senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <c1a.162fd21a.3357b1e6 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > > "So keep fighting your good fight but don't keep asking for statements - do > something better - reach out and change the system so that the help comes > without a statement - there has to be a better way in the long term " > > > Unfortunately a statement is the only legal way to guarantee help for a > child, and even then it isn't alwaya guaranteed. > > In a perfect world no child would need one. Sadly our world and the > education system in this country are far from perfect. > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:28:52 +0100 (BST) > From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: Olanys at aol.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <517681.72943.qm at web86514.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Aly > I wish I could sit my non-readers in front to a TV. I know they can't succeed without support but I have not way to deliver the support I need. Instead of being successfully educated at their level, they are in classes of anything up to 30 with a hard working subject specialist who is delivering history, greography, RE, design or whatever and would love to have a solution to this problem of how to engage them with the lesson. It can be done - with 1-1 TA support. I don't have the money to pay for this support. Don't tell me it has to be done. I can't be. Every penny and more we are delegated to pay TAs is spent on TA pay. > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > Secondary SENCO > > Olanys at aol.com wrote: > > > > > "Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil > with no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to learn > from them." > > > If the child could do this he would not need support at any time...why not > just sit him in front of the tv! > > > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > CornwallFrom Anusianena at aol.com Wed Apr 18 19:44:49 2007 > Received: from [193.109.254.163] (helo=mail30.messagelabs.com) > by davinci.ngfl.gov.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1HeF97-0002Qg-32 > for senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:44:49 +0100 > X-VirusChecked: Checked > X-Env-Sender: Anusianena at aol.com > X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-30.messagelabs.com!1176921885!35302310!1 > X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- > X-Originating-IP: [205.188.157.37] > X-SpamReason: No, hits=1.8 required=7.0 tests=ratty_date: Non-RFC but > legit format in Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:44:23 EDT > Received: (qmail 14944 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2007 18:44:45 -0000 > Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) > by server-13.tower-30.messagelabs.com with SMTP; > 18 Apr 2007 18:44:45 -0000 > Received: from Anusianena at aol.com > by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id m.bdc.fa38da7 (29678); > Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:44:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: Anusianena at aol.com > Message-ID: <bdc.fa38da7.3357c107 at aol.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:44:23 EDT > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: niels.seaton at virgin.net, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5019 > X-Spam-Flag: NO > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.2 > Cc: > X-BeenThere: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > Precedence: list > List-Id: for discussing issues relating to the work of Sencos > <senco-forum.lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=unsubscribe> > List-Archive: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/pipermail/senco-forum> > List-Post: <mailto:senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Help: <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=help> > List-Subscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=subscribe> > > Dear Niels > You have completely misunderstood my posting- I think, although I am not > absolutely sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with some things. I am > telling it as it is for me and many other sencos - certainly in my borough. > > I am not a great advocate for statements - my posting does not say that - I > know that I have a habit of adopting a slightly cynical / humorous tone when > frustrated, which clearly does not translate well to the black and white of > emails. I certainly don't keep asking for statements - unless I believe it is > absolutely necessary and we have exhausted other avenues and support. Of > course there are always teachers who will say to the senco "why hasn't this > child got a statement?" as though that is the universal panacea - and at the end > of the day, for some children, if they have a statement they have certain > statutory rights - which in this borough includes access to autism outreach team > if appropriate and devolved funding or not, sometimes the few extra pounds > that come our way can be put to extremely good use. I don't understand your > comment about not agreeing with me about "extra support with a statement" - are > you saying statements do not provide anything that cannot be done without a > statement? Is there no limit to the demands that can be placed on a school > budget? Should we not at some point be able to say that a child needs a level > of support that we cannot provide for from our budget? And that therefore the > child is being disadvantaged. > > You cannot deny that children at transition with a statement do receive > support that would not be available otherwise - at the very least the guarantee > of an LEA officer attending annual review and supporting parents with 2ndary > choices. > > I am not sure really who has misunderstood whom, but I am sure that we are > both doing all we can to support the children we work with. > > Hackles down. > > Anusia > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:45:51 -0400 > From: kngbrndn at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: anusianena at aol.com, amandavh at btinternet.com, > senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <8C95000EC34E97C-CEC-3001 at WEBMAIL-DC10.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Anusia -- I've made a long reply to Amanda -- and hope it provides some structural ideas for you as well. I never intended to suggest that you were making this query as a defence reaction as SATs and secondary phase approached -- I was generalising -- forgive me for my crassness. > > I agree that much of the concern arises as secondary phase is so much more demanding of an SEN child in so many ways -- and that this is the most likely reason for increasingly raised concerns at this stage. The LAs feeble response "that if a child has managed without a statement during much of the primary phase, why should s/he suddenly need one now" -- if anything shows that early action by parents and school for a statement for the type of young persons we are discussing here is so important. But the LA officer who states such nonsense should be reminded, that such a reason for refusal to assess, is not one of the reasons set out in the law or the CoP. If this was reason, put in a letter of refusal, it is obviously an unlawful reason and justifiably appealable. > > Best of Luck to you both and all. Brendan King. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: anusianena at aol.com > To: amandavh at btinternet.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 4.12PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > > Thank you Amanda. You expressed so well some of the issues we regularly face at > primary level. A lot of children do indeed cope - and progress - at school > action plus within primary because of our relative flexibility, small size etc. > And I have noticed that with devolved funding we do indeed have more resources > to deploy as we see fit. We are not afraid to be accountable. But we (I speak > for myself and colleagues here) do worry as to how some of our more vulnerable > children will cope at secondary. I have also heard that requests for > assessments at Y5 or Y6 are sometimes turned down (wrongly!!!) because the > powers that be think we are just looking for a statement to help us through > SATs. This is a case of glass half full or half empty. They argue that if the > child has not needed a statement so far, why should they suddenly do so. i > would say that they have not needed a statement so far because we have managed > to support their learning up to this point because we are a small school with > some flexibility and few "terrors" for the children, but the change of > curriculum and pace and all the rest that inevitably comes at the end, together > with concerns about transition, mean that I for one think it is most appropriate > that some children who have not needed the extra support a statement may bring, > do need one at Y6. It does not mean we have ignored the child's difficultes or > not sought to support them. > hope that made sense, sentences getting very long. > Would add my plea to Amanda's that if anyone knows "how to enable a pupil with > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time" - please let me know! > > Anusia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amandavh at btinternet.com > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 3.29PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working > below L3) > > > Hello > I'd like to try to make some general points about KS2 to 3 transition for > pupils who are working at Level 2 and below, rather then comment on the case > Anusia aised. She did ask for 'no lectures' after all so she obviously knows > that there are issues she is trying to address. > Brendan said 'Everyone gets alarmed when SATs and secondary transiton > approaches'. I'd agree - this is a real concern for parents and for primary > teachers for children with SEN. But I don't think that this is because of what > he calls 'fear of accountablity' every time. It is often, in my experience, > because my small rural primary feeder schools have a way of being very flexible > about the way they educate pupils who are working at Level 2 and below in their > school. Pupils are happy there. Parents know the routine and the staff so they > > are happy too. Secondary schools are larger and further away. Many parents of > pupils with low ability have an unhappy experience of secondary school in the > past so feel even more concerned. > Example: I have a child whose reading and writing skills are at P7. He spent > his primary career learning to speak, having arrived with no expressive language > > at all at the age of 5. He was very happy at primary school and was managing > really well. But the school had to make sure that they did the SATs work in > Year 6 so they had to find things for him to do all day every day for four weeks > > which bore no relation to what the rest of the class was doing. This would be > just about manageable if he had full time 1-1 TA support but he does not. He is > > unable to do anything involving any kind of reading or writing without direct > adult intervention. > Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil with > > no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to learn > from them. I'll pass on any advice to my colleagues and also use it in my > English lesson. Saying 'the LA must do X, Y and Z' is no use. Don't you think > that we are arguing as hard as we can with the LA all the time? > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:53:54 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <d04.e20984c.3357c342 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I'm sorry I shouldn't be flippant, but it does make me very angry that the > only solution for these children is to find something to occupy them when they > cannot be taught or supported at all. In finding a solution you (plural as > in SENCOs, not you personally) are only adding to the problem by saying it's > OK for these children to be unteachable, let's just amuse them and leave > teachers, TAs, SENCOs etc free to teach those that can be taught!! Acceptance is > just denial. > > Access to education means just that, the law - section 7 of the Education > Act 1996 -stipulates that every child has a right " to receive efficient > full-time education suitable: > 1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and > 2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular > attendance at school or otherwise. " > > That MEANS full time, not when the teachers aren't too busy. Access to > independent learning doesn't mean leaving a child to get on with it for an hour or > 2! > > A teacher's job - which they are paid for, not out of the SEN budget - is to > teach...all children, not just the easy ones. A SENCO surely has the > authority to ensure these children are taught, to their ability, age, aptitude and > special educational needs, especially if they are part of the senior > management team? > > If not, who does? Where does the buck stop? > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:17:48 EDT > From: Anusianena at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: Olanys at aol.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <bf6.129c2cf1.3357c8dc at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't think anyone was suggesting that "the only solution for these > children is to find something to occupy them". However you will not persuade me > that there are not times, eg when the rest of the class are doing SATs and most > support staff plus anyone else appropriate on school premises has been > timetabled as readers / scribes etc, that a child cannot work independently on > some age and ability appropriate software / worksheets / project. > The very idea that any senco on this forum thinks it is somehow acceptable > to just "amuse" some children while we concern ourselves with the rest is a > complete denial of the commitment and hardwork that is evidenced by the postings > to this forum. Frankly even subscribing to a forum and spending our > evenings reading, learning, sometimes posting, is evidence of some degree of > commitment... I would love to end world poverty, stop all the wars, end global > warming, lose a couple of stone and provide truly personalised, needs-led, age > and ability appropriate education for every child - in a secure, safe, clean, > stimulating, inspiring, exciting, calm, friendly environment. In the > meantime, I will continue to do the best I can with the resources I have - which > includes doing the best we as a school can for the children with specific and > general learning difficulties, those on the autistic spectrum, those with > emotional and behavioural needs, language and communicaiton difficulties, physical > disabilities, medical conditions, attention difficulties, EAL, g&t, looked > after children, children on the CP register and those with any or all of the > above. > Anusia > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:31:43 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <bca.dc14fd8.3357cc1f at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > Anusia if you read my post again you will see I said teachers not SENCOs. > > > > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:53:15 -0400 > From: kngbrndn at aol.com > Subject: Fwd: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <8C9500A5687647A-CEC-36F2 at WEBMAIL-DC10.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child workingbelow L3) > > I obviously disagree with Niels -- completely and without resevation -- see my previous posts to Amanda and Anusca. And Andrew Adonis doesn't appear to either -- see his comments in support of the current legal framework involving statutory assessment and statementing -- publically made to the Select Commitee and in his response to their report. This is the first and only time I'm likley to agree with Lord AA -- and I reckon his days as a schools minister are numbered anyway. > > If LAs, schools and parents have been so sucessfully liasing together -- and if this type of young person was every LAs first priority (as Niels suggests) why would there be so many concerns voiced, in this thread, about under-provided for non-literate/non-numerate and even non-verbal young persons? And, according to one secondary contributer, he sees many Yr 7 young persons arriving 'Bushy eyed and tailed", but not able to read and write, and then two "getting themselves excluded". And why are there thousands of appeals to the SENDIST every year with literacy and language comprising around 40% of those appeals? > > What Neils misses out, is that the legal framework of the statementing system, opens LAs officers up to accountability by a very critical, and aware, independent tribunal appeal system. And who regularly open up the 'can of worms' that is consistent, country-wide, LA (officer) bad behaviour, bad faith, delaying tactics, extended to the point of "delayingness gone mad" carried out by very many LA officers. > > And absolute complacency about their actions in side-stepping and flagantry breaching vital legal legal duties -- at the alter of keeping to strict, unrealistic, budgets over the vital and urgent needs of very vulnerable children. And the 'taking in' of trusting parents by LA (officer) 'blandishments' generated by officer fear of the accountablity of tribunal panels. Which is why such officers will steadfastly seek to persuade that the statementing process delivers nothing but delay. I would agree, that statements issued by LAs usually offer nothing more than SA+, and LA (officer) actions in the Statutory process does cause (purposefull) delay. But tribunals very regularly (96% of appeals upheld) do order a substantial level and type of provision that never could be generated from a schools devolved resources -- or ever orderd volunarily by many of the most appealed against LAs. Brendan King > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:54:40 -0400 > From: kngbrndn at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <8C9500A891DF54A-CEC-371D at WEBMAIL-DC10.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > > Hi Amanda -- I appreciate your position and have no doubt that you and your colleagues in your small, rural, secondary school in Cornwall are doing everything possible for this child, within the expertise that you have available, and within the teaching and support capacity of your school. > > But, for the child you describe, I doubt whether your school can provide sufficiently for all of this child's SEN. And I'm sure you agree. There is a sharp, distinct and vital duty for the LA to ensure that, where the school has done everything in accordance with its duty to "do the best" for every child in its school, to assess/reassess this young person, and issue a statement specifying sufficient additional expertise and support to ensure that the dillema you face does not occur at any stage of this young person's education. > > You have made your case to Cornwall LA (as you indicate) to no avail, so it's now time to ensure the parent/s are empowered to take action to force the LA to fulfill its duties to this child. Arguing with LA officers, when they know parents and school cannot (or are unlikely to) do anything that brings the officers into account, is virtually always a waste of very valuable time and energy. One or two carefully written letters is enough in my experience. And, if reminding them of their legal duty, and including evidence of the child's level of functioning, causes no immediate increase in neccessary provision - the triggering of appeal rights is the vital next step and should never be delayed. > > I'd give the LA (as a maximum) the six weeks allowed for them to consider a statutory assessment (or to amend the statement if one is in force) and then go to appeal via the SENDIST (if I were the parents). If a statement is in force, and no immediate appeal rights available, parents can request a reassessment, and appeal if refused. If a statement contents appeal can be triggered, the parents have a right to request a specialist S< school (in the maintained or independent sectors) if this is something they wish to consider -- and where a statement protected placement may continue through until the young person is 19. > > This child, as you describe, has long required (as an educational provision) very intensive in-school speech and language therapy from a trained and experienced speech and language therapist (S<) who sould be in your school at least once per week for sufficient hrs to give 1:1 or very small group sessions (legally defined in case law as approx 6 children max.) and to monitor and train staff approaches, and to set ongoing programmes. And a full-time TA to carry out daily programmes set by the S< and to provide in-class support for literacy and numeracy skills development. I can suggest this, as me and my colleagues have assisted many similar children to obtain this level and type of provision, via the appeal tribunal (in secondary as well as primary phases). > > You may have been told, in your arguments with LA and Primary Health Trust officials, that there are "not enough S<s in Cornwall -- so it's no use appealing for this level and type of provision" -- or "S< provision is never arranged at secondary phase". Don't argue, just assist the parents appeal and this type and level of provision wiill be very likely to be ordered. It may take several months to acheive but will be worth it in the long term. > > The LA will then have to contract an independent S<, if this provision cannot be arranged with the Primary Health Trust Schools S< Service. I've done this several times in my region, and even "helped" the LA find an independent S<, when they 'dragged their feet' after a Tribunal Order. These 'indie' S<s have their own organisation and contact website -- and there are always excellent and willing practitioners, in all parts of the country, who will jump at this work by which they earn their living and practice their vocation. Where parents can afford it (or if solicitor aranged legal aid is available during an ongoing appeal situation) such indie S<s can provide a detailed assessment and attend the Hearing as a witness -- and are often the one's contracted by the LA after an appeal is upheld. > > Our motto (in the parent advising business) is "Don't argue and plead -- just take action". Tell the parents of this child you describe to ring IPSEA -- details on our website. Cheers Brendan King > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:56:50 +0100 (BST) > From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: Olanys at aol.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <757050.25074.qm at web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > My last post on this - honest! > > Sorry, Aly. You may not mean it like this but it does seem to me that you and Brendan both think that it would all be sorted out for pupils if only teachers worked harder. Many of us are already working flat out. We don't like the fact that we cannot meet the needs of all pupils all the time but that is the reality of the situation. Yes, some situations are a disgrace. Yes, we must fight to change it all. Yes, we must try to galvanise parents into challanging the LA - the only way I know to get any change provision and improve the situation for pupils. But we have also got to teach day in day out as well. Oh yes, and have a life too. > Yours > Off to make packed lunches and then wrestle with 32 top set Year 11 GCSE poetry time essays before bedtime. > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO and mainstream English teacher (not always in that order) > Cornwall > Olanys at aol.com wrote: > I'm sorry I shouldn't be flippant, but it does make me very angry that the > only solution for these children is to find something to occupy them when they > cannot be taught or supported at all. In finding a solution you (plural as > in SENCOs, not you personally) are only adding to the problem by saying it's > OK for these children to be unteachable, let's just amuse them and leave > teachers, TAs, SENCOs etc free to teach those that can be taught!! Acceptance is > just denial. > > Access to education means just that, the law - section 7 of the Education > Act 1996 -stipulates that every child has a right " to receive efficient > full-time education suitable: > 1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and > 2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular > attendance at school or otherwise. " > > That MEANS full time, not when the teachers aren't too busy. Access to > independent learning doesn't mean leaving a child to get on with it for an hour or > 2! > > A teacher's job - which they are paid for, not out of the SEN budget - is to > teach...all children, not just the easy ones. A SENCO surely has the > authority to ensure these children are taught, to their ability, age, aptitude and > special educational needs, especially if they are part of the senior > management team? > > If not, who does? Where does the buck stop? > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > CornwallFrom sheridan.sharp1 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 18 21:08:37 2007 > Received: from [193.109.254.163] (helo=mail30.messagelabs.com) > by davinci.ngfl.gov.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1HeGSD-0002f1-9a > for senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:08:37 +0100 > X-VirusChecked: Checked > X-Env-Sender: sheridan.sharp1 at btinternet.com > X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-30.messagelabs.com!1176926916!348869!1 > X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- > X-Originating-IP: [217.12.12.203] > X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= > Received: (qmail 19704 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2007 20:08:36 -0000 > Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (HELO smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) > (217.12.12.203) by server-6.tower-30.messagelabs.com with SMTP; > 18 Apr 2007 20:08:36 -0000 > Received: (qmail 59190 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2007 20:08:36 -0000 > DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; > h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; > b=ylCI4Xl1Pqn0OAC4WsuZ2DaluIDvl54bAGvw44CSLpJ5Q/UCFkTbuZgQ19uPdH6/D/FSAYH4XXegUD6jVHqLmOWdNqOQPOo3PCBi707rPjjwGIVFaEjx1jkoAaETGDhHKE1bWAzRF5+hm31eEJt0CtwOoEz4VSCOfMxP5j9E1Pk= > ; > Received: from unknown (HELO Study) > (sheridan.sharp1 at btinternet.com@81.132.155.138 with login) > by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2007 20:08:35 -0000 > X-YMail-OSG: MmtiVqsVM1kcEpHBlTh3fXs3AWpKwrnZviXdjUE93ttCOEKP > Message-ID: <001a01c781f5$25b09a90$0700a8c0 at Study> > From: "Sheridan" <sheridan.sharp1 at btinternet.com> > To: <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > References: <517681.72943.qm at web86514.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:07:09 +0100 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 > X-BeenThere: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > Precedence: list > List-Id: for discussing issues relating to the work of Sencos > <senco-forum.lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=unsubscribe> > List-Archive: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/pipermail/senco-forum> > List-Post: <mailto:senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Help: <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=help> > List-Subscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=subscribe> > > I have to say this term "occupying" a pupil smacks of negligence to me. > Teachers are not there to occupy but to provide learning experiences surely > they are disregarding their statutory duties? > Cheers > Sheridan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:15:05 -0400 > From: kngbrndn at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: amandavh at btinternet.com, Olanys at aol.com, > senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <8C9500D633713A4-15F8-390A at MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Amanda -- Message from Brendan and I hope you don't delete me. I'm not going to ask you to read my posts again -- but I never suggested that you should "work harder" or implied in anyway that you and your colleagues have not done everthing and more, from your own capacities, to do your best for all of your charges. > > I was offering a set of solutions that offer very little other action by you than informing the parent of action they can take, rather than pleading. Ans suggesting they ring IPSEA. All SENCo's who's children I've helped have been amazed at how little they have had to do, once an independant IPSEA adviser has got involved, and how much additional support has been generated. And how any tenseness between school and parents has been alleviaited by IPSEA intervention. I always seek to come in praise not to condemn (as in Ceaser). Best of Luck (again) Brendan King > > -----Original Message----- > From: amandavh at btinternet.com > To: Olanys at aol.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 8.56PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > > My last post on this - honest! > > Sorry, Aly. You may not mean it like this but it does seem to me that you and > Brendan both think that it would all be sorted out for pupils if only teachers > worked harder. Many of us are already working flat out. We don't like the fact > that we cannot meet the needs of all pupils all the time but that is the reality > of the situation. Yes, some situations are a disgrace. Yes, we must fight to > change it all. Yes, we must try to galvanise parents into challanging the LA - > the only way I know to get any change provision and improve the situation for > pupils. But we have also got to teach day in day out as well. Oh yes, and have > a life too. > Yours > Off to make packed lunches and then wrestle with 32 top set Year 11 GCSE > poetry time essays before bedtime. > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO and mainstream English teacher (not always in that order) > Cornwall > Olanys at aol.com wrote: > I'm sorry I shouldn't be flippant, but it does make me very angry that the > only solution for these children is to find something to occupy them when they > cannot be taught or supported at all. In finding a solution you (plural as > in SENCOs, not you personally) are only adding to the problem by saying it's > OK for these children to be unteachable, let's just amuse them and leave > teachers, TAs, SENCOs etc free to teach those that can be taught!! Acceptance is > > just denial. > > Access to education means just that, the law - section 7 of the Education > Act 1996 -stipulates that every child has a right " to receive efficient > full-time education suitable: > 1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and > 2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular > attendance at school or otherwise. " > > That MEANS full time, not when the teachers aren't too busy. Access to > independent learning doesn't mean leaving a child to get on with it for an hour > or > 2! > > A teacher's job - which they are paid for, not out of the SEN budget - is to > teach...all children, not just the easy ones. A SENCO surely has the > authority to ensure these children are taught, to their ability, age, aptitude > and > special educational needs, especially if they are part of the senior > management team? > > If not, who does? Where does the buck stop? > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > Cornwall > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:19:35 +0100 (BST) > From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: kngbrndn at aol.com, Olanys at aol.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <24879.17534.qm at web86511.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Sorry Brendan > Getting a little het up here! SATs, GCSEs, etc etc all getting to me. > Amanda > > kngbrndn at aol.com wrote: > Hi Amanda -- Message from Brendan and I hope you don't delete me. I'm not going to ask you to read my posts again -- but I never suggested that you should "work harder" or implied in anyway that you and your colleagues have not done everthing and more, from your own capacities, to do your best for all of your charges. > > I was offering a set of solutions that offer very little other action by you than informing the parent of action they can take, rather than pleading. Ans suggesting they ring IPSEA. All SENCo's who's children I've helped have been amazed at how little they have had to do, once an independant IPSEA adviser has got involved, and how much additional support has been generated. And how any tenseness between school and parents has been alleviaited by IPSEA intervention. I always seek to come in praise not to condemn (as in Ceaser). Best of Luck (again) Brendan King > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amandavh at btinternet.com > To: Olanys at aol.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 8.56PM > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: underline; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose > .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink, .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } body { background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: 10pt; border: 0px; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose p { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: 0px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important; } > My last post on this - honest! Sorry, Aly. You may not mean it like this but it does seem to me that you and Brendan both think that it would all be sorted out for pupils if only teachers worked harder. Many of us are already working flat out. We don't like the fact that we cannot meet the needs of all pupils all the time but that is the reality of the situation. Yes, some situations are a disgrace. Yes, we must fight to change it all. Yes, we must try to galvanise parents into challanging the LA - the only way I know to get any change provision and improve the situation for pupils. But we have also got to teach day in day out as well. Oh yes, and have a life too. Yours Off to make packed lunches and then wrestle with 32 top set Year 11 GCSE poetry time essays before bedtime. Amanda Secondary SENCO and mainstream English teacher (not always in that order) Cornwall Olanys at aol.com wrote: I'm sorry I shouldn't be > flippant, but it does make me very angry that the only solution for these children is to find something to occupy them when they cannot be taught or supported at all. In finding a solution you (plural as in SENCOs, not you personally) are only adding to the problem by saying it's OK for these children to be unteachable, let's just amuse them and leave teachers, TAs, SENCOs etc free to teach those that can be taught!! Acceptance is just denial. Access to education means just that, the law - section 7 of the Education Act 1996 -stipulates that every child has a right " to receive efficient full-time education suitable: 1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and 2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular attendance at school or otherwise. " That MEANS full time, not when the teachers aren't too busy. Access to independent learning doesn't mean leaving a child to get on with it for an hour or 2! A teacher's job - > which they are paid for, not out of the SEN budget - is to teach...all children, not just the easy ones. A SENCO surely has the authority to ensure these children are taught, to their ability, age, aptitude and special educational needs, especially if they are part of the senior management team? If not, who does? Where does the buck stop? Best wishes, Aly Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm www.apduk.org Amanda Secondary SENCO Cornwall > > > > > Amanda > Secondary SENCO > CornwallFrom gdmorewood at supanet.com Wed Apr 18 21:43:05 2007 > Received: from [193.109.254.163] (helo=mail30.messagelabs.com) > by davinci.ngfl.gov.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1HeGzZ-0002l4-6t > for senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:43:05 +0100 > X-VirusChecked: Checked > X-Env-Sender: gdmorewood at supanet.com > X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-30.messagelabs.com!1176928983!18949468!1 > X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- > X-Originating-IP: [213.40.2.14] > X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= > Received: (qmail 30978 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2007 20:43:03 -0000 > Received: from gourd.sout.netline.net.uk (HELO gourd.sout.netline.net.uk) > (213.40.2.14) by server-3.tower-30.messagelabs.com with SMTP; > 18 Apr 2007 20:43:03 -0000 > Received: from [86.112.197.55] (helo=BILLY) > by gourd.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) > (envelope-from <gdmorewood at supanet.com>) > id 1HeGzS-000NFI-WE; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:43:02 +0100 > Message-ID: <008e01c781fa$1948ff90$37c57056 at BILLY> > From: "gdmorewood" <gdmorewood at supanet.com> > To: "Amanda" <amandavh at btinternet.com>, <kngbrndn at aol.com>, > <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > References: <24879.17534.qm at web86511.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:42:35 +0100 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 > X-Supanet-AV-out: Mail Scanned as virus free, > although you should still use a local virus scanner. > X-Supanet: This was sent via a www.supanet.com mail server > Cc: > X-BeenThere: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > Precedence: list > List-Id: for discussing issues relating to the work of Sencos > <senco-forum.lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=unsubscribe> > List-Archive: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/pipermail/senco-forum> > List-Post: <mailto:senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > List-Help: <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=help> > List-Subscribe: <http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/senco-forum>, > <mailto:senco-forum-request at lists.becta.org.uk?subject=subscribe> > > > As a Secondary SENCo and IPSEA advisor (Tribunal Support Service) I am > certain of one thing with regards this thread - none of us would be reading, > writing and offering thoughts on the Senco-Forum unless we had the > individual child's needs and best interests at heart. > > Healthy debate is key to developing provision and ensureing that standing > still doesn't mean, in reality, drifting backwards. > > Often people say to me the role of SENCo and IPSEA advisor and a bit > 'poacher turned gamekeeper' - I think it gives me an invaluable insight into > how to best support the students at my school and advise parents from other > Authorities in light of my own experiences. > > The Forum is an invaluable tool for stimulating debate and seeking advice, > both Amanda and Brendan offer views I respect enormously, lets keep offering > advice, supporting colleagues and trying to make a difference - so many > other people don't!!! > > Gareth, reduced to very few postings due to massive workload and bad > cold!!!! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:08:45 +0000 > From: "Gaynor Dunkley" <gadunkley at hotmail.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > workingbelow L3) > To: amandavh at btinternet.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <BAY101-F206CA99CFC85139EE45CCCF0500 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > Hi Amanda > > I am in much the same setting as you . Large rural secondary fed by lots of > little rural primaries who do a brilliant job ,mostly supporting students > below level 2. > > This year we had 46 students working at level 3 or below none with > statements. This number has risen dramatically over the past 3 years from > single figures to 46. Have not yet thought about what may be next year. > > I have discussed my concerns with head and head of english and maths and we > are in all probability going to set up and access group in which teh very > weakest students will be taught basic sjkills ,once acquired they will move > in to a set group . My worry and we have not explored this is what happens > if tehy never acquirethe skills to move out. > > I know of several schools who are going down this route and some who have > employed a primary qualified teacher to work at this level and are having > some success with progress. > > If you can access the Specialist Schools Trust site they have some of these > schools offering advice and visits > > Gaynor > > > > >From: Amanda <amandavh at btinternet.com> > >To: Olanys at aol.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > >Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > >workingbelow L3) > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:28:52 +0100 (BST) > > > >Aly > > I wish I could sit my non-readers in front to a TV. I know they can't > >succeed without support but I have not way to deliver the support I need. > >Instead of being successfully educated at their level, they are in classes > >of anything up to 30 with a hard working subject specialist who is > >delivering history, greography, RE, design or whatever and would love to > >have a solution to this problem of how to engage them with the lesson. It > >can be done - with 1-1 TA support. I don't have the money to pay for this > >support. Don't tell me it has to be done. I can't be. Every penny and > >more we are delegated to pay TAs is spent on TA pay. > > > > Amanda > > Secondary SENCO > > Cornwall > > Secondary SENCO > > > >Olanys at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > >"Now - if anyone has any practical suggestions about how to enable a pupil > >with no literacy skills at all to learn without adult intervention and be > >self-managing for between 50 and 110 minutes at a time, I'll be happy to > >learn > >from them." > > > > > >If the child could do this he would not need support at any time...why not > >just sit him in front of the tv! > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > >Aly > > > >Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > >www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > >www.apduk.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Amanda > >Secondary SENCO > >Cornwall > > _________________________________________________________________ > Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. > https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:21:29 EDT > From: Olanys at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <d67.729d4ed.3357f3e9 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Amanda, is it too much to expect ALL teachers to teach ALL pupils? > > To expect the SEN department to differentiate, to find things for these > children to do , to occupy them when teachers are busy with SATs etc is > unforgiveable. If it means class teachers and subject teachers in secondary (primary, > I have found, tend to do so as a matter of course) teachers have to try > harder to differentiate, be inclusive, make education accessible to all pupils, > then so be it... that's what they are there for. That is their JOB. Sorry if > it sounds harsh but as a parent and advocate for those with SEN I have seen > far to much of this and my patience wears thin. I didn't mean you or anyone on > this forum, as I said, but those teachers who still cling to the phrase "I am > not trained to teach those children". > > My meaning was that so long as SENCos simply accept the status quo, make > allowances fro these difficult and stubborn dinosaurs, they will carry on > failing our children. > > Is there no way professionals can fight this without just "galvanising > parents"? > > If you failed to provide the level of education that the children you teach > were entitled to you would be accountable. I would love to see SENCOs and > other professionals stop covering for those that do this, because they are > ACCOUNTABLE too. Hiding behind being stressed, busy, not trained in SEN etc. is a > poor excuse when a child's education is in the toilet. > > Best wishes, > Aly > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > www.apduk.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:52:10 +0100 > From: Jonathan Sampson <the.sampsons.111 at virgin.net> > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: Sen Forum <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > Message-ID: <04FE16DD-89BC-47A3-8240-DDB80662492A at virgin.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > No, but the demands on class teachers in huge and the range of > abilities in classes is now wider than ever and this causes the > difficulties. There is not simply a need for differentiation in > classes (which many, many teachers do all the time) but there is a > need for a 'different curriculum' for some children whose learning is > so adrift from their peers. For example in one of our Year 4 classes > most children are working between level 4/5 to level 1 (which is > actually the same or wider in every class) - now the class teacher > can differentiate to teach that - not easy but it can be done. > However, the child who is working at P6 actually cannot be included > in that differentiation as his needs are so different. His needs > cannot override the needs of the other children and the TA or teacher > cannot spend all of their time with him as the level 1s and 2s need > support, as well as the g and t children - and you can't forget the > middlies too. The demands and pressure on class teachers just simply > teaching is immense and then there are all the other pressures of > targets/reports/ofsted/new initiatives/etc etc. I know this is what > we are paid for, but schools are expected to accommodate a much wider > range of needs, disabilities, languages, etc than ever before. > ducking down > Sue KS2 > ps little lad should be off to a 'more appropriate placement' soon as > mainstream is not for him. > > > On 18 Apr 2007, at 23:21, Olanys at aol.com wrote: > > > Amanda, is it too much to expect ALL teachers to teach ALL pupils? > > > > Best wishes, > > Aly > > > > Chair Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK/APDUK > > www.lacewingmultimedia.com/APD.htm > > www.apduk.org > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:56:17 +0100 > From: "Ruth Newbury" <rmnewbury at ntlworld.com> > Subject: RE: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk> > Message-ID: <001c01c7820c$c745d750$55d185f0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I have followed this thread with a great deal of interest, even though it is > a problem that I no longer have to deal with - until tonight! > > Watching my grandson sit and do his maths homework, with tears running down > his cheeks when the numbers elude him is not a pleasant sight. > > He has key stage three exams coming up, and we are going through paper after > paper for his home work. I can see only too well exactly what pressures are > putting upon teachers - and students. > > Know this is a child with the specific learning difference - dyslexia - > with real problems of working memory, particularly when number is concerned > - let alone all the other bits and bobs that go with his problems. > > And this is a child too - who would be very unlikely to be statemented > within this authority - and he sits in his class of 30 - trying to get to > grips with it all. And this is within a set mathematics class too. I know > that if I were trying to give individual help to the students in this group, > I would find it virtually impossible - and I've been teaching for a long, > long, time - and I do think that I know what I am doing - and what is the > best way to do it too. > > Teaching is about the art of the possible - and whatever we may like to > think - it is impossible to actually give every child the individual help > that they may need at every time it is needed. > > We have to make the best of it by actually doing a lot of it at home. > > Teachers may well have statutory duties - but there are times that they > cannot actually be fulfilled - because I suspect that the Archangel Gabriel > would have exactly the same problems if he were attempting to do the job in > the classroom. > > I know exactly what is meant by lower schools being able to be particularly > flexible in the way that they deal with children with very real problems, > and who managed to be truly inclusive. > > Count yourselves lucky if you are in an area where the transfer is at the > end of year six. Here in Bedfordshire we have middle schools, which are > nowhere near as comfortable for students as the lower school. > > For the particular student that everyone has been discussing, I would be > looking for his teaching to be delegated to a learning support assistant > whilst all those other poor students are doing SATs revision. And he should > count himself lucky that he is well out of it! > > And on a final note - it disappoints me to find that there are members of > the forum who do not think that there is a place for sheer entertainment > within the school environment! > > There jolly well is! > > In my time I have sung songs, said silly poems, abandoned lessons for the > sheer joy of sliding on the ice in the playground or walking out in the > sunshine without a coat on. > If any inspector asked what I was doing - I would have told him that we were > having fun! > > God help us all is school is only by learning academic things! > > Regards > > Ruth > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:37:14 -0400 > From: kngbrndn at aol.com > Subject: Re: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child > working below L3) > To: rmnewbury at ntlworld.com, senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Message-ID: <8C95029A0CB5EE1-5E8-4E44 at mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I agree with all of that Ruth -- which is why I campaigned -- without success -- against SATs all those many years ago. I hope you are keeping well now -- Brendan KIng. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rmnewbury at ntlworld.com > To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11.56PM > Subject: RE: [senco-forum] KS2 to 3 transition (was Help for Y6 child working below L3) > > > I have followed this thread with a great deal of interest, even though it is > a problem that I no longer have to deal with - until tonight! > > Watching my grandson sit and do his maths homework, with tears running down > his cheeks when the numbers elude him is not a pleasant sight. > > He has key stage three exams coming up, and we are going through paper after > paper for his home work. I can see only too well exactly what pressures are > putting upon teachers - and students. > > Know this is a child with the specific learning difference - dyslexia - > with real problems of working memory, particularly when number is concerned > - let alone all the other bits and bobs that go with his problems. > > And this is a child too - who would be very unlikely to be statemented > within this authority - and he sits in his class of 30 - trying to get to > grips with it all. And this is within a set mathe