[SENco-forum] 4th percentile tosh

The problem here is that these tests only measure reading abilities in
relation to the expected norm.
They do exactly nothing to determining the real underlying causes of these
issues. The diagnosis of the underlying problems that may cause these poor
percentile results are not within the Educational Psychologist's
qualifications to diagnose. And this is the biggest problem that both
parents and teachers face. So all you get from this is a diagnosis of having
dyslexic symptoms which is not a condition but a cultural problem regarding
the use of our cultures visual notation of our auditory language.

We need to identify and have clinically diagnosed the underlying causes of
this diagnosis of the dyslexic symptoms, so that we can begin to define the
correct type of coping strategies according to the underlying cause(s) of
the dyslexic symptoms. Some coping strategies used by one group of dyslexics
my be detrimental or even harmful to another group of dyslexics 
For example those who have visual underlying cause of dyslexia may have
problems using the coping strategies used by those who have an auditory
cause of their dyslexia, a very good example of this is the design and
layout of the APDUK web site which has been desingned to be APD or auditory
dyslexic friendly.

This brings us back to the need for One Stop Assessment centres staffed by
multi-disciplined professional staff able to provide a joint diagnosis for
any of the Invisible Disabilities that a child may have in one assessment
process. Instead of continual ongoing referrals until you find the correct
diagnosis which can take years of being referred to the wrong type of
consultant. The diagnostic process need to be taken out of the education
system and refered for clinical diagnosis instead. 
We who have these disabilities have to live them inside, outside, and after
school. The present diagnostic processes have no meaning outside of the
education system, not that many in that education system have much
understanding of them anyway. We need a diagnostic process that provides us
with a diagnosis we can use for life, not just for LEAs to try and find ways
to not provide the support we need.

Best wishes

dolfrog

-----Original Message-----
From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of
SEN at tringham.net
Sent: 26 April 2007 07:48
To: Becta Senco
Subject: RE: [SENco-forum] 4th percentile tosh

Sometimes it is not the ambiguousness of EP reports, or the fact that some
LEA EP reports are economical with the truth under LEA direction, but
sometimes that the school cannot understand the scores or comments in the
report any more than the parents can.  Without understanding there is no
point in having the report other than as 'evidence' in later battles.

I have sent a perfectly clear EP report stating High IQ, coupled with a
evidence of both dyscalculia/dyslexia, and communication from Professor Tim
Miles explaining the significance of Bangor Test scores only to have the
school congratulate itself on getting a high IQ student and then refusing to
support her as they had plenty more who are far worse off.  Now in GCSE year
the math teacher is surprised to find her student is struggling and equally
surprised to find they have SpLD!  Dual exceptionalities students can only
get so far without support, and that might be further than the 'average'
student is no excuse.

What is the point of percentile or standard or raw scores at all if they
only exist as a point or 'range' to get a student to before leaving them to
their own devices? If a student cannot learn the way the teacher teaches
there comes a point where all will 'fail'.  Should any one point be more
acceptable than another?

Sharon

-----Original Message-----
From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk]On Behalf Of kngbrndn at aol.com
Sent: 26 April 2007 01:05
To: Mmilesep at aol.com; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
Subject: Re: [senco-forum] 4th percentile tosh

OK Martin -- I got the percentile score wong there. A typo or tiredness or
both. Thanks for pointing it out. But (humbly) I contend I do know what I'm
talking about generally in this area -- however I should have double checked
my posting before sending. Also, I am very capable of error, by getting
dated by lack of direct practice on a regular basis -- and you will be much
more of an authority than myself in respect of statistical analyisis.

But that does not, in any way, undermine the 'credibility' the substance of
what I said, which was the most important aspect. That there are serious
problems of very many parents not getting thourough and unambiguous
assessments, for their SEN child from their LA, without having to commission
their own independent asessements. This is my all to common experience and
was the real (if slightly digressing) point I was making in my posting. The
Education Select Committe Report called for a seperation of LA statutory
assessment from provision duties, as it found that the present operation of
SEN was 'unfit for purpose' so I'm not alone in my experience.

Regretfully -- Eddie is not my 'buddie' as we've never met -- nor do we
directly communicate about any matters raised on the forum! And we have no
joint axes to grind in any way. Any comments from him as to aptness of what
I may state on this forum (or otherwise) are the same as from any one else,
just a comment of agreement or disagreement as to what someone else has
said. Starngely you are not the first person to collectively imply
critiscism of Eddie and myself -- but such generalisation of critiscims has
absolutely no validity or relevence.

When I make general critiscism of EP practice in LAs, this is not a
criticism of the profession as a whole, or EPs as individuals. I meet many
very excellent EPs in private and LA practice, and read some excellent
reports. EPs are vital professionals, and I had the pleasure of meeting an
excellent principle LA EP (Head of an LA service) yesterday at a very
crucial meeting with a parent.

I believe EP roles in supporting children and schools should be strengthened
and expanded considerably, with the EP role, within the statutory assessment
process, 'distanced' considerably from LA control. The constant 'cuts' in EP
services that happened in my area -- when I was a teacher -- frutrated me
intensly.

But I have stated the problem that I find, as a fact not a general anecdotal
smear, as it is very important to SEN children and their parents in terms of
the assessment process. Unfortunatly the LA EP has become a 'Gatekeeeper'
for LAs in limiting spending on SEN, and it was not a role that the EP
profession sought. It is a fault of the legislation and needs to be
rectified -- as the Select Committe is seeking to persuade Government so to
do.

I always read your advice and comments, and value them Martin, and I hope to
be able to continue to do so.

Cheers Brendan King

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