[senco-forum] Re literacy (madness)

Sat her eand laughed ( like a drain!!) barbara ht 

-----Original Message-----
From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Ally Bremner
Sent: 03 January 2007 20:09
To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
Subject: FW: [senco-forum] Re literacy (madness)

-----Original Message-----
From: Allyson Bremner 
Sent: 03 January 2007 17:36
Subject: FW: [senco-forum] Re literacy (madness)

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Allyson Bremner 
	Sent: Wed 03/01/2007 13:51 
	To: 'dolfrog'; 'Eddie Carron'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re literacy (madness)

	Dolfrog,  This is a true story.    I was wandering around Sainsburys
in a post Christmas daze when I spied a Sure deodorant labelled APD.  Surely
not I thought and carried on walking, then another and another. Right Guard
- APD, then Lynx -APD, aaaaargh, Dolfrog and Aly are taking over the
world!!!! I must be crazier than I thought.  Still they kept coming at me,
Dove - APD, Soft and Gentle - APD.  I screamed and the men in white coats
came, I was writhing on the floor, pointing, look, look, they are coming to
get me, there is no escape.  What?  Said the men in white coats, APD! I
shouted back.  

	Anti perspirant deodorant they said as they took me away.  

	Ally - signing off for a few weeks of rest after her shingles (you
can probably guess I need it)  Happy New Year everyone.  

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of dolfrog 
	Sent: 03 January 2007 03:23 
	To: 'Eddie Carron'; senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk 
	Subject: RE: [senco-forum] Re literacy 

	Hi Eddie 

	I was trying not to advance the cause of APD specifically, as there
are 
	other groups who have similar problems, I am a member of a UK Adult
dyslexia 
	forum, and not all who have problems with phonics necessarily have
APD, for 
	example both my youngest son and I are both Visual-Spatial Learners
and this 
	is another large group who have problems with phonics. 
	I have never said that teaching reading using synthetic phonics or
any other 
	phonics program will not work for probably 65% of children, it is
the other 
	35% who have the literacy problems caused by phonics only teaching,
which 
	dominates the curriculum. 
	I can read, but my combination of problems prevent me from reading
aloud 
	without great difficulty, and I can only process small chunks of
normal text 
	(usually one paragraph if I am lucky) So yes I am literate, but I
can not 
	follow a learning text for too long, and I find following verbal
instruction 
	near impossible. So what is the point of getting all to read if they
are not 
	able to fully utilise the skill, 
	Why not use alternative methods of communication so that all can
follow what 
	is being explained. This domination of phonics is the big problem
not just 
	in the teaching of reading but all teaching. 

	Best wishes 

	Graeme 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk 
	[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of Eddie
Carron 
	Sent: 02 January 2007 22:16 
	To: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk 
	Subject: [senco-forum] Re literacy 

	Graeme 

	The choice of visual representations of sounds was a natural
development 
	over thousands years which rendered literacy possible for the vast
majority 
	of peoples.  I have never claimed that it is perfect and for you to
suggest 
	that I have is frankly, disingenuous.  You also accuse me of making 
	assumptions without saying what these assumptions are. How on earth
are you 
	advancing the cause of APD with such self-evidently inaccurate
statements? 

	To Barbara 

	Of course, most of us have to decode complex words now and then.
Even 
	children taught synthetic phonics still encounter the same minor
difficulty 
	in saying very occasionally occurring, chemical or medical words but
this is 
	not a significant barrier to progress.  Also of course, reading
complex 
	things is unlikely ever to be a significant factor in the lives of
the 
	children on whose behalf I am campaigning.  What I want for them is 
	functional literacy - the ability to read a page of a tabloid
newspaper - 
	the information on a medicine bottle - the directions on a singpost
and the 
	ability to complete a simple form.  At the moment, they leave school
being 
	able to do none of these things.  This is eminently achievable and
it is a 
	skill they are being denied by the very people who are paid to
provide it. 
	I think we will have to agree to disagree about the ethics of
teaching 
	children wholly unnecessary things - it is certainly not good
teaching 
	practice to subject children to a great number of lessons on a
subject for 
	which they have no need.  I was not taught by SP but I'm quite sure
I was 
	not disadvantaged by this fact.  One infant teacher who 'lurks' said
that 
	what I support is precisely what is done in her school and that only
a very 
	small number of pupils are failed by it. These then  receive formal 
	assessment'  For her own reasons, she chooses not to make her views
known of 
	the forum. 

	This forum represents those with collectively more experience of
dealing 
	with failing readers than any other group in society and even we are
still 
	spinning around in ever decreasing circles.  This is precisely why
the DfES 
	can continue to heap one disastrous, illogical and ill-considered 
	'initiative' after another on us and why another hundred thousand UK

	citizens will continue to graduate illiterate from school every
year, quite 
	unnecessarily. In these circumstances,  to campaign for children to
be 
	taught something that they have no need of would be a step to far
for me and 
	I am have long been in favour of synthetic phonics. 

	Eddie C. 

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