[SENco-forum] Handwriting

Just a thought...what's the carbon footprint of providing a keyboard/voice

Easy we get on and build the hydro-electric plants we should be building and
which should have been built years ago, instead of coal or gas fired power
stations, it's a very carbon neutral way of producing electricity.  

Colin

-----Original Message-----
From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf Of
jeanld at fish.co.uk
Sent: 24 July 2007 17:24
To: Elaine Nickolls
Cc: senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk
Subject: RE: [SENco-forum] Handwriting

A very good point.  I use technology for a lot of things, but always have
a nagging thought at the back of my mind: what happens when we have to
severely restrict the electricity we use?

Jean

> Just a thought...what's the carbon footprint of providing a keyboard/voice
> activated software etc and all that goes with it, for everyone, compared
> with a biro/pencil/whatever it takes to make a mark on paper....and send
> it to an exam board for marking?
>
>      From:  "Mary Kelly"
> To:  "'Jamie Munro'" ,"'Maggie Downie'" ,
> CC:  'Becta Senco'
> Subject:  RE: [SENco-forum] Handwriting
> Date:  Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:21:51 +0100
>>But, surely, the single most "important" reason pupils need to write is
>> to
>>inform their teachers and examiners what they know, because most schools
>> are
>>simply not equipped with enough computers and printers for them to do
>> this
>>using keyboards?
>>Mary
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
>>[mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta..org.uk] On Behalf Of Jamie Munro
>>Sent: 24 July  2007 08:17
>>To: Maggie Downie; jeanld at fish.co.uk
>>Cc: Becta Senco
>>Subject: Re: [SENco-forum] Handwriting
>>
>>I¹d like to just bring people back to what originally incensed me to
>> start
>>this discussion:  That an examination essay written in flowing cursive
>> with
>>a ³real² pen is worth a grade higher than one printed neatly with a biro.
>>That, lets call in penmanship rather than writing, is a valuable skill
>>needed in the 21st century and we should use valuable school time to
>> teach
>>pupils this skill.  I¹ve still yet to see any argument in favour of this.
>>
>>People have given plenty of examples of where handwriting may be needed
>> but
>>in every case we are talking very short pieces of writing and being able
>> to
>>print neatly would be enough.  Yes, I do handwrite birthday cards to
>> people
>>but no one has ever sent me one back and said I loved them less because I
>>wrote in print with a biro and not used cursive with an ink pen.
>>
>>But Maggie, most of us are ³welded to electronic gizmos every minute of
>> the
>>day².  Why is there something wrong with that?  Why is using a pen and
>> paper
>>some how more worthy than writing electronically.  I never go anywhere
>>without my mobile phone for example, and rummaging through my pockets
>> I¹ve
>>pulled out a pen drive and my Ipod.  This is the world we live in and
>> this
>>is the world that the current generation in school feel comfortable with.
>>  I
>>see them sending notes to each other all the time, just they use texting
>> and
>>not  notepads and pens.  Jot down an address and phone number?  I¹d  put
>> it
>>straight into my phone where I could guarantee I¹d find it again.  Put a
>>note through someone's door?  I¹d probably call them and leave a message
>> on
>>their answer phone.  Write down an order for food in a restaurant?
>> Printing
>>would probably be less confusing than cursive but I see many restaurants
>>moving to electronic ordering.  In a Tapas bar last week the staff had
>> Palm
>>PDAs and entered your orders in them, and when ordering food at my local
>>pub, the staff used the electronic till to enter the order.
>>
>>Of course there is the irony that we are having this discussion via an
>>electronic medium.  We¹re not sending each other little notes written in
>>flowing cursive on Basildon Bond  paper.
>>
>>Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Maggie Downie
>>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:01:18 +0100 (BST)
>>To: Jamie Munro ,
>>Cc: Becta Senco
>>Subject: Re: [SENco-forum] Handwriting
>>
>>Well, I would feel that I was missing a vital skill if I couldn't
>>communicate clearly in handwriting as well as by keyboarding.  What are
>> we
>>trying to achieve?  children who can't do a simple calculation without a
>>calculator and can't write a message with a pen and paper.  Isn't this a
>>form of helplessness?
>>
>>How are you going to write special wishes inside a birthday card, drop a
>>note in someone's letterbox if you called to see them and they  weren't
>> in,
>>jot down an address or a phone number, write something highly
>> confidential
>>that couldn't possibly be traced once the document had been destroyed....
>>
>>C'mon, we're not welded to electronic gizmos every minute of the day.
>>
>>Maggie
>>
>>Jamie Munro  wrote:
>> >  But that's my point.  We teach children to produce neat cursive
>>handwriting
>> > for those who set public examinations.  Not because it has a use in
>> the
>> > workplace, not because of any educational benefit, but what seems to
>> be a
>> > purely arbitrary reason.
>> >
>> > As for filling in forms, I never come across one that doesn't insist
>> that
>>it
>> > is written in block capitals or print and these are types of hand
>> writing
>> > that are  being actively discouraged because "print essays while equal
>> in
>> > speed are likely to be marked down by one exam grade."
>> >
>> > The faces of struggling writers show the same triumph when they have
>> > produced a piece of work using a computer too.
>> >
>> > I certainly don't feel like I have lost a valuable piece of myself by
>> not
>> > doing hand writing.
>> >
>> > Jamie
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> > From:
>> >> > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:24:55 +0100 (BST)
>> >> > To: Jamie Munro
>> >> > Cc: , Sharon Fawcitt , Becta Senco
>> >> >
>> >> > Subject: Re: [SENco-forum] Handwriting
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as I am aware, public exams, such as GCSE and A  Levels
>> still
>>have
>> >> > to be handwritten and some jobs still expect that application forms
>>will
>> >> > be filled in by hand.  In both instances, it is necessary for those
>> >> > reading the scripts to be able to read legible handwriting.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also, most of the children that I have taught who do have
>> difficulties
>> >> > with their handwriting really do want to improve it.  Talking to
>> them
>> >> > about using IT etc is all very well, but their faces show their
>> true
>> >> > feelings when they have produced a piece of well-formed, legible
>>writing.
>> >> > Perhaps it is because our writing is something intensely personal,
>>created
>> >> > by us and unlike anyone else's.  Having said  that, mine and my
>>daughter's
>> >> > handwriting is so alike that it's spooky and my sister's can also
>> be
>> >> > mistaken for mine at a glance!
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards
>> >> >
>> >> > Jean
>> >> >
>> >> > S Wales
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >  I feel I've wandered into a discussion from a previous century.
>> It's
>>2007
>> >>> >> not 1897 (or even 1987), why are we placing so much emphasis on
>> >>> >> handwriting
>> >>> >> when a lot of us not in school simply don't do it at all any
>> more.
>>The
>> >>> >> only
>> >>> >> handwriting I ever do  is writing cheques, and chip and pin have
>> seen
>>to
>> >>> >> most
>> >>> >> of that.  Oh, maybe the odd shopping list that only I will read.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I'm communicating this by email, over the weekend I communicated
>> with
>>my
>> >>> >> local council via their web site, wrote a letter to my local
>>newspaper
>> >>> via
>> >>> >> email.  In meetings I take notes using a laptop, I write
>> appointments
>>in
>> >>> >> my
>> >>> >> electronic diary on my mobile phone/PDA.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> An essay in flowing cursive deserves an exam grade better than
>> one in
>> >>> >> print?
>> >>> >> Bizarre  and grossly unfair!
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Jamie
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>>> >>> From:
>> >>>> >>> Reply-To:
>> >>>> >>> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:30:33 +0100
>> >>>> >>> To: Sharon Fawcitt , Becta Senco
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> Subject: RE: [SENco-forum] Handwriting
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> Those who are adamant they do not need to change - style or
>> speed
>>are
>> >>>> >>> the
>> >>>> >>> most resistant so it has to be student choice.  I tell them the
>>facts -
>> >>>> >>> print essays while equal in speed are  likely to be marked down
>> by
>>one
>> >>>> >>> exam
>> >>>> >>> grade.  Untidy writing (2 comparable essays) was marked down 2
>>grades C
>> >>>> >>> as
>> >>>> >>> opposed to A.  My  11 year olds are not to worried by this as
>>GCSE's
>>are
>> >>>> >>> not
>> >>>> >>> for another 5 years.  As teachers we should be really worried.
>> For
>>the
>> >>>> >>> students I am dealing with this is going to be the difference
>>between a
>> >>>> >>> GSCE
>> >>>> >>> pass and fail and this needs addressing.  The biggest question
>> for
>>me
>>is
>> >>>>  >>> when is the best time to tackle the current handwriting
>> problems -
>> >>>> >>> Reception
>> >>>> >>> or  KS2.  Secondary students are going to have acquired habits
>> that
>>are
>> >>>> >>> really hard to influence positively.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >>> >> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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