[senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery

From: dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk <dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk>

I think you are somewhat confused as to what 'empirical research' actually is.  

This is one definition:

1.
a. Relying on or derived from observation or experiment: empirical results that supported the hypothesis.
b. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment: empirical laws.
2. Guided by practical experience and not theory, especially in medicine.

In other words, a researcher sets up an experiment in order to test a theory and uses the data gained from that experiment to judge whether it confirms or disproves that theory.  A good piece of empirical research, far from 'ignoring the complex issues that exist in real life' will be carefully controlled to take account of those issues.  The experiment will generate data, which is then analysed.  A researcher may be *wanting* to prove a theory, but if the evidence from their research results is contrary to their theory they will abandon it.  If the results seem to confirm their theory and can be replicated by other researchers in the field, then the theory will generally be accepted as being valid.  The process of peer review and replication of results is meant to ensure that any one particular theory will not gain acceptance without solid evidence of its validity.

If you can't trust rigorous empirical research then you can't trust anything.

Maggie

--- On Wed, 21/5/08, dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk <dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk> wrote:

> From: dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk <dolfrog at dolfrog.org.uk>
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery
> To: "'Philip MacMillan'" <P.Macmillan at exeter.ac.uk>, "'Stuart Lucas'" <lucass at loretto.com>, maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk, "'Becta Senco'" <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>, SEN at tringham.net
> Date: Wednesday, 21 May, 2008, 4:27 AM
> Hi Philip
> 
> I find empirical research to lack credibility, and ignores
> the complex issue
> that exist in real life. There is a greater need to get
> these desk bound
> number crunchers to do some real field research and so
> begin to understand
> the real problems. 
> From what I have read from empirical researches is that
> they are selecting
> their source data, and then use their selected data to
> prove and justify
> their own interest groups cause.
> This may not be the case of some empirical researchers, but
> from my own
> experience they usually ignore the most important details,
> and have little
> understanding of the field research data that they are
> assessing.
> 
> So get these researchers out in the field to do their own
> field research
> instead of sitting behind desks speculatingor should we say
> guessing.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> dolfrog
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Philip
> MacMillan
> Sent: 20 May 2008 19:43
> To: Stuart Lucas; maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk; Becta Senco;
> SEN at tringham.net
> Subject: Re: [senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery
> 
> Empirical educational research is just ignored by the
> system at all levels. 
> The system spends other people's money (they have no
> option but to pay) on 
> other people's children (they have no choice as to what
> is provided to them,
> 
> unless of course you can afford private).   The government
> is always 
> bleating about tax payer value for money and how we all
> need ot be 
> accountable for what we do and yet they ignore the advice
> from their own 
> chosen experts for that of the old guard.  RR has been
> shown to be close to 
> fraudulent in the way that it gathered and manipulated the
> data and what 
> does HMG do, why it gives them more.  A bit like all the
> failed IT 
> contracts, those who fail get paid more as there is plenty
> more where that 
> came from.  Oh to be a non dom and pay nothing to live in
> the UK.  Fat 
> chance!
> 
> Philip EP
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Stuart Lucas" <lucass at loretto.com>
> To: "Philip MacMillan"
> <P.Macmillan at exeter.ac.uk>;
> <maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk>;
> 
> "Becta Senco"
> <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>;
> <SEN at tringham.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery
> 
> 
> 10 O'clock news last night -
> Reading Recovery - being pushed by .......?
> Looks like added some 20 odd billion pounds to Ed budget
> but not much
> rewards??????
> 
> Stuart
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk
> [mailto:senco-forum-bounces at lists.becta.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Philip
> MacMillan
> Sent: 19 May 2008 20:36
> To: maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk; Becta Senco; SEN at tringham.net
> Subject: Re: [senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery
> 
> If you look at the INDEPENDENT evaluations of RR you will
> find that it
> by
> and large a sham.  RR obviously still has big friends in
> big government.
> 
> They should not be spending any of our money on it.
> 
> Philip EP
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Maggie Downie"
> <maizie2004 at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Becta Senco"
> <senco-forum at lists.becta.org.uk>;
> <SEN at tringham.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [senco-forum] [SENco-forum] reading recovery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 19/5/08, SEN at tringham.net
> <SEN at tringham.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Where the system always breaks down is for the unlucky
> > 20-25% where dealing with phonics/blending/consonant
> > clusters 'str' or 'tion', or, abstract
> > whole words - 'was/are' is difficult and where
> > context in dictation sentences has to be used to learn
> and
> > then these broken back down to individual words in
> > isolation.
> 
> Sharon, I don't quite understand what you are saying
> here.  I work with
> 'the
> bottom 25%' of readers in my school ( a perfectly
> ordinary comp. in an
> area
> of social deprivation)and I suppose I must count myself
> fortunate that
> I've
> never worked with a single child who couldn't grasp the
> principles of
> phonics and of blending.  On the other hand, they are
> uniformly confused
> and
> messed up by having had a mish mash of methods thrown at
> them at primary
> 
> school.  While I appreciate that you have had particular
> problems with
> your
> own children, I strongly suspect that Solity's figure
> of 3 -5% of
> children
> being REALLY difficult to teach is the truer one.
> 
> >
> > Not sure how this scheme got to be pushed to the fore
> by
> > government.
> >
> I think it's a case of money talking (RR are extremely
> well funded) a
> relentless publicity machine and knowing the right people
> (they have the
> ear
> of the PM).
> 
> Maggie
> 
> 
>      
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