[senit] Safari on PC

This should probably be taken off list.. here comes an Apple bun fight..

I'll keep it "on list" for the moment - just to see if others have views. 
Here's a comment from a Silicon Valley developer (not SLD specific at all): 

"OS X is a hodge-podge of things that were never intended to work
together. Beginning with the Carnegie-Mellon 'Mach' microkernel,
hacked up to behave more like a monolithic kernel, then wrapped with
some stuff to make it behave sort of like Berkeley Unix, finally
enshrouded with all the UI stuff from Next. Then loaded up with all
the freebies from the open software world - Apache, PHP, Perl, GCC,
GDB, (this list goes on almost forever), just like any Linux system.
In fact, the Safari browser started as the KDE Konqueror browser from
Linux. An amazing feat of slapping things together, but I wouldn't
call it design, per se, at least not when taken as a whole. 

"Still, I like OS X, and even if Leopard isn't that much better than
Tiger, which wasn't that much better than the previous cat... they're
all better than the alternatives, whether Windows or Linux." 

That is from the biggest Apple fan I know - at least the biggest who (a) 
doesn't work for Apple, and (b) actually has spent his life in application 
development. 

That does not make it a "bad" operating system at all, it simply makes 
developers work much harder - which is more difficult for the smaller 
organizations which support SLD issues. 

But yes, Apple simply does not yet acknowledge this market. Microsoft - for 
all their faults (and there are more than I could possibly list) does 
embrace the market. Why? I'm not sure. The same friend (above) told me, "If 
you're entire focus is on the young and cool, you really don't care about 
disability issues." 

Ira 

Will Wade writes: 

> This should probably be taken off list.. here comes an Apple bun fight..
> but.. just want to say one teeeny eeeny thing re: Apple.. 
> 
> <geek-rant-begin>
> Im a little confused what you mean by the current Apple OS being built
> from "unrelated structures". Apple's OS is now far more open and easy to
> write software for than it ever has been. Im wondering if you are
> intimating that developers have mentioned to you that its harder to write
> SLD software for on the mac.. The fact that you can't write software on a
> mac like you do on windows isn't Apples fault - its both the developer and
> MS for not using common API's. Its more often a lack of resources being
> the problem (Windows is a bigger market, SLD software houses are tiny with
> tiny budgets, SLD software is built up from age old windows programs..
> etc..) ... anyway I'll keep my friday afternoon ranting short..
> </geek-rant-end> 
> 
> I will however agree with you on one main problem that you highlighted -
> apple are rubbish at realising their LD market and thus selling it - both
> to the development community and professionals in the business. 
> 
> Oh and Firefox does beat the competition hands down. If you have a mac
> check out the new firefox 3 beta:
> <http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html>  its quite frankly
> life changing. (but only on a mac ;) ) 
> 
> w 
> 
>> I won't challenge anything you say here Sean, except to note that
>> Universal
>> Access and Voice Over are not, in my experience, well suited for SLD - and
>> that Apple - because of their operating systems being built from unrelated
>> structures - makes it much harder for accessibility developers to keep up
>> with their ever-changing systems. 
>>
>> That limits the tools we have available in creating true universal access,
>> which is frustrating because so much in the Apple O/S and environment (as
>> you describe) is so wonderful. 
>>
>> I say this all as I sit with both types of computers on my desk. And as
>> someone who has used Macs since the original. But also as someone who just
>> listened to developers at CSUN bemoan their struggles (once again) with
>> another new Mac O/S, and who remembers an Apple rep at CSUN two years ago
>> saying in response to my concerns about VoiceOver, "oh, there's nothing
>> here
>> for LD kids." Oh. 
>>
>> So, perhaps I went too far (I often do). Besides, if you run Parallels on
>> a
>> new Apple you can have both, and it is one great Windows machine. But I'd
>> still use Firefox for the students I work with in either platform. Firefox
>> clearly has the best supports. Opera is second. Safari a distant third.
>> IE7?
>> I use it to download things from Microsoft sites with ActiveX. That's
>> about
>> it. 
>>
>> Ira 
>>
>> Sean O'Sullivan writes: 
>>
>>> I'd really have to pick you up on this Ira. Not with respect to how
>>> good
>>> Firefox is - simply the follow on comment that for Apple  accessibility
>>> is
>>> an afterthought. I do try to avoid coming over as an  evangalist for
>>> Apple, but every now and again feel a positive view  needs an airing. 
>>>
>>> We deliberately chose Apple way back in the early 90's for the
>>> accessibility of its system. We stuck with it due to the innovative
>>> introduction of programmes like iMovie (express yourself - who cares  if
>>> you haven't yet become text literate?), iTunes (move files around  and
>>> use
>>> personal storage areas - ie a playlist?), iPhoto (how easy did  that
>>> make
>>> it for pupils to download photos without needing me there?),  iDVD (make
>>> your own portfolio of personal work and experiences, pre- Learning
>>> Platforms), Garageband (do you want your pupils to shuffle  elements
>>> around that could make up a podcast, or perhaps create a  piece of
>>> music?). We continue with it as the best option you can give  to a
>>> person
>>> who has cognitive learning difficulties. 
>>>
>>> Perhaps your concern is with regard to sensory accessibility. I've
>>> explored but can't comment professionally on what I think is a really
>>> excellent built in tool, Universal Access, which for several years has
>>> been an integral element of the system software. From what I've seen  it
>>> is in no way an afterthought, and perhaps even more important than  what
>>> Apple do with their own software, is what they make possible for  others
>>> to do with it: 
>>>
>>> Check out AssistiveWare's example of what you can do if your
>>> specialised
>>> field is to supply products to fit the interests of people  with
>>> physical
>>> access needs (after all - are we suggesting that the  access tools that
>>> are integral to Windows are so good, or is it a 3rd  party product being
>>> referred to?):
>>> http://www.assistiveware.com/index.php 
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean O'Sullivan
>>> sean.frankwise at easynet.co.uk
>>> Headteacher
>>> Frank Wise School, Banbury
>>> http://www.frankwise.oxon.sch.uk 
>>>
>>> http://www.parkroadict.co.uk 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 27 Mar 2008, at 19:20, Ira David Socol wrote: 
>>>
>>>> It's been more than year, but I honestly can't imagine why anyone
>>>> working in the SEN field would be using anything other than Firefox
>>>> (or
>>>> perhaps Opera). As we've discussed here before, no browser  offers the
>>>> range of accessibility options and study skill supports  that Firefox
>>>> has. Opera is a close second. For Safari - as with most  Apple products
>>>> -
>>>> accessibility is an afterthought, if thought of at  all.
>>>> Ira David Socol
>>>> Special Education Technology Scholar
>>>> CEPSE
>>>> College of Education
>>>> Michigan State University
>>>> socolira at msu.edu
>>>> http://speedchange.blogspot.com/
>>>> Alex Hammerstein writes:
>>>>>  Hi  - question for the really sad techies - how long has Mac  Safari
>>>>> been
>>>>> available for the PC?   I downloaded the latest update for ITunes
>>>>> onto
>>>>> my laptop this afternoon, and
>>>>> low and behold, they have included their Safari browser with the
>>>>> update.
>>>>> Got a very pleasant surprise when it popped up.   Wow IE 7 has been
>>>>> consigned to the trash!!   Alex
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Ira David Socol
>> Special Education Technology Scholar
>> CEPSE
>> College of Education
>> Michigan State University
>> socolira at msu.edu
>> http://speedchange.blogspot.com/ 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 

Ira David Socol
Special Education Technology Scholar
CEPSE
College of Education
Michigan State University
socolira at msu.edu
http://speedchange.blogspot.com/ 