[senit] Safari on PC

There've been a few things in the techie news (such as Slashdot) that

Stephen: 

The security issues for Safari on Windows are an issue. No greater than the 
security issues for IE7, but more substantial than for Firefox. I agree on 
the "little persistent installs" that come with 'Apple for PC' software - 
although I see it all too often from many vendors. 

As for cross-platform - it is simply different sometimes - especially, for 
example, machine-based text-to-speech or speech recognition because the 
systems handle these functions differently. And support truly helps. 
Microsoft - again, evil as they may be, clunky as Windows may be, awful as 
Vista may be - really actively participates in things like the Alliance for 
Technology Access, really works to make the "routes" through their software 
clear. Years of talking to developers leads me to believe that Apple does 
considerably less. So, we're still waiting for the promised Dragon for Apple 
(coming soon!) and Firefox-based text-to-speech is still a struggle in the 
new Mac O/S. 

In the US - well, SEN computing is so sporadic and rare in America that it 
is hard to define a dominant position. The typical SEN classroom in an 
American school is often equipped with one or two of the oldest computers in 
the building. yesterday I saw two Windows98 machines. Last week two Macs 
running O/S 7.something. In the US "K-12" environment there is almost no 
commitment - outside of a few "good states" - to this kind of support. The 
general attitude seems to be that "technology will make them lazy." But 
then, outside of wealthy suburbs, tech access is exceedingly rare for any US 
primary or secondary student. Most schools ban all personal electronics and 
may bring students to the computer lab once a week for 45 minutes, where the 
bulk of the time is taken up with network log-in problems and internet 
filters prevent students from reaching almost anything on-line. So, in the 
US, "educational technology" (we surveyed this in Michigan three years ago) 
seems to be defined as "PowerPoint" or "turning in attendance reports 
electronically." Even when we have tried to give software away to schools, 
or to have them embrace free software, we find ourselves blocked by "school 
district" (LEA) tech support staff who have been trained to severely limit 
what runs on the schools' computers. Teachers are typically blocked from 
downloading anything. Many cannot even install Firefox on their school 
machines. 

In the university environment there is a vast mix, Most universities support 
both platforms, though most SLD supports at the university level run in 
Windows. A growing decision is the parallels system running on Apple 
hardware, but of course that costs far more than simply buying generic 
Windows machines. 

Ira (yes, in America) 

Stephen Smith writes: 

> There've been a few things in the techie news (such as Slashdot)  that 
> mentioned recent security issues with Safari for Windows - They popped up 
> on RSS feeds and I didn't read them as I don't use it - but they might be 
> worth a look if you do. This is one of them : 
> http://blogs.computerworld.com/sadly_apples_safari_security_safe 
> 
> I found Safari a pretty, if somewhat basic browser - I'm a Firefox devotee 
> I'm afraid. I did like the way that Safari handled RSS feeds though - very 
> slick 
> 
> What I don't like about Apple Software on PC's is how the programs all try 
> and install an extra bit that never goes away - like for instance the 
> person who related their experience of downloading iTunes and 
> inadvertently installed Safari as well. I'd imagine that Quicktime was 
> installed too, and that it updates automatically, and that there are 
> little programmes called things like "iPod helper", and Bonjour - which 
> are nigh on impossible to uninstall (this on my home PC which runs the 
> gauntlet of my teenage offspring, rather than the school network). I've 
> wondered whether this happens with the same programs on an Apple and 
> whether they see that as a security issue on the supposedly safe as houses 
> Apples - personally I think that software you can't prevent from 
> installing or uninstall easily is a problem. 
> 
> As far as browsers go I always used to find that Internet Explorer was the 
> best - then they went to IE7 and I just couldn't believe how bad it was. I 
> moved over to Firefox, and wondered how I'd ever lived without it. It felt 
> like a quantum leap in software development. 
> 
> Firefox is open source software and as such the source code should be able 
> to be compiled on any platform that has a suitable compiler - so all the 
> versions should be pretty similar - whether on Windows, Mac or Linux 
> 
> Similarly if software is open source then it should work pretty much 
> across any platform (I know it's not that simple in reality but should be 
> true for most straightforward applications.) Obviously this isn't a 
> particularly straightforward option if you're trying to make money from 
> your products - but you can of course produce applications which run 
> within higher level environments  - such as dare I say it ' Flash' - which 
> shouldn't really worry too much whether it's on a PC or a Mac (or in some 
> cases on a mobile phone) 
> 
> I've never found Macs as intuitive and user friendly as some people think 
> but also I've never particularly liked Windows - I am a former Acorn 
> afficionado - who moved into backing the market leader (PCs) when Acorn 
> finally crashed out of the educational computer arena some years ago 
> 
> I think PCs undoubtedly have a far wider range of software applications 
> available for them than any other platform - and I guess this as true in 
> the SEN sector as it is in any other. But that isn't to say that this 
> necessarily means that you'll get what you want. Garage Band for instance 
> is a program that comes as standard on a modern Mac; but although there 
> are plenty of available programs that acheive the same ends available on 
> the PC, none of them achieve it with quite the aplomb that Garage Band 
> does. At the moment I'd also say that Macs look far cooler than PCs and 
> handle some of the flashy graphic desktop tricks far more effectively. 
> 
> I find Windows a huge and clumsy operating system - there are still bits 
> of DOS in there in XP for instance - , which seems to have a deliberate 
> slowing down mechanism as it gets older. Presumably because of the myriad 
> of different remnants of old programs which build up, and are more or less 
> impossible to completely get rid of. Does a Mac do the same ? I don't know 
> - I've never used one long enough. I know the old Acorn RiscOS never had 
> this problem - you wanted to get rid of a program you simply deleted the 
> directory that contained it. I'm also increasingly finding that Windows 
> (Vista seems particularly prone to this) is increasingly rail roading the 
> user into doing or not doing particular courses of action - you have to be 
> really "sure" that you want to do things like turning the firewall off for 
> instance. And how many times do you have to tell Windows that "No !" -  
> you really don't want to tidy up your relatively unused desktop icons, so 
> please stop nagging me about it. 
> 
> I've heard in the past that Apple have a fairly dominant position in the 
> US in the SEN field - I've no idea whether this is true or not. Is anyone 
> from Don Johnston on this list ? I'd guess they could give the lie to that 
> myth one way or the other. [ Or looking more closely perhaps Ira could 
> (and perhaps already has) - sorry Ira I didn't realise where you were 
> posting from, and what your background was - I'll try to read before I 
> compose my emails in future - at least I spotted it before posting] 
> 
> Finally much as I don't like Windows I can't say I've been radically 
> impressed with the Linux alternative, which has also been fervently and 
> almost evangelically touted by its loving fans - I do enjoy messing around 
> with it and getting it to do what I want - but teachers in classrooms 
> don't need Geekware, they need to just click and run  - They've far more 
> chance of that with Windows or MacOs 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ira David Socol" <socolira at msu.edu>
> To: <senit at lists.becta.org.uk>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [senit] Safari on PC 
> 
> 
>> Mark -
>> That "wider selection of software," I would argue, is a direct result of 
>> corporate and programming decisions made by the two companies. as I just 
>> noted, Microsoft - and I'm no MS-loving fool - has gone out of their way 
>> to embrace this kind of software development. Apple simply has not.
>> Ira
>> webmaster at aylesburyvale-sec.bucks.sch.uk writes:
>>> From: "Ira David Socol" <socolira at msu.edu>
>>>> as with most Apple
>>>> products - accessibility is an afterthought,  if thought
>>>> of at all.
>>> 
>>> Whilst I agree that Firefox is a more accessible browser
>>> than Safari (if slower) I must say that your last sentence
>>> is complete nonsense. Apple have always striven to make their products 
>>> very user
>>> friendly. This benefits everyone regardless of your
>>> 'ability'. A 'typical SEN' student (if there is such a
>>> thing) finds 'Pages' easier to use than 'Word' but then so
>>> would a 'non SEN' (again if there is such a thing) user. There are a 
>>> number of features built into the OS which are
>>> specifically designed to increase accessibility. I use both Macs and PCs 
>>> (though modern Macs are PCs, the
>>> main difference being that the are capable of running OSX)
>>> and you couldn't really persuade me that windows is more
>>> accessible other than in the sense that there is a wider
>>> selection of software available on the Windows platform. Mark --
>>> Mark Norwood
>>> Assistant Headteacher
>>> www.avssc.org 
>>> ========================================================================
>>>  This email has been sent from the Bucks LEA. If you have cause for 
>>> complaint regarding the content of this email please contact
>>>                         abuse at bucksgfl.org.uk
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>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Ira David Socol
>> Special Education Technology Scholar
>> CEPSE
>> College of Education
>> Michigan State University
>> socolira at msu.edu
>> http://speedchange.blogspot.com/ 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>  
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Ira David Socol
Special Education Technology Scholar
CEPSE
College of Education
Michigan State University
socolira at msu.edu
http://speedchange.blogspot.com/ 